The NFL Thread

I'm a saints (I know they suck)

but one year were gonna make it to the superbowl


I been with them since they were called the aints and I'm not gonna give up on them now

how can u not say westbrook is not a quality running back??? hes not correy dillion i gotta say but as long as the NE is a dynasty Philly or anyother team really doens't have a chance

O ya, when u said TO isn't willing to take a paycut but the rest of philly is , if thats tru which i'm pretty sure either of us can verfiy. how far cna philly go w/o TO ????

obviously they can go to the NFC Championship, and this year the Super Bowl since he didnt play in any playoff game minus the Super Bowl. i got my money on Atlanta though. Vick's been my boy since college, as has Dunn.

and i say Westbrook isnt quality because of exactly what i said, RUNNING. he's a great backfield reciever, he make the screen look like the best play in football, but any football fan knows you have to have a run game. it opens up the game. makes play actions happen and expands the playbook. he really didnt establish a run game for them.

I guess i can kind of agree w/ u on the westbrook subject. But the main threat to the NE dynasty will be The colts , they have really noticed their lack of defence and are really trying to fix it. I think they need to get ride of stokley or wayne as i mentioned b4 and i don't know what they are thinking when they had Marvin harrison sign a 10 million dollar contract, i no MArvin is argumnatble the best reciever 2day but w/ salery caps hes the highest paid reciver, and doesn't even lead the league in yards.

Defense alone does not win championships.. The Pats had a top 6 or 7 back in DIllon and a great QB in Brady... when the Bucs won, Brad Johnson was in the top 3 in Passer rating... When the Rams won? They had 2 MVP's on their OFFENSE in Warner and Faulk.. That was one of the NFL's greatest offenses ever...


SO defense does not win championsips...


and my Falcons are going the distance this year. I don't care what anyone says, Vick is the best player in the NFL. DVD can not be stopped.

Amen the falcons definitally rule...hardcore vick fan right here....i think that if they picked up a good wide out for vick to throw to they would be championship material...i would like to think that they will make it this year...but i doubt it...i do disagree with you about defense winning championships though. if you think about it...without good defense you dont have a chance...look at the ravens last year. all they had on Offense was jamal, i could play better then boller...but they still had a winning record all thanks to their defense. and sure the pats have tom brady but i mean come on look at that defensive lineup...so i am gonna have to disagree with you and say that defense does win championships

SO defense does not win championsips...

Curtis, how wrong you are. yeah, you need some kind of offensive. but the Bucs had Brad Johnson who sucks in my opinion, but look at there defensive that Super Bowl year. i could probably name off all there starting defenders and over half of them were pro bowl players. they're defensive was BEST in the league that year. much with lets say, the Super Bowl winning Ravens. i mean, Dilfer, as starting QB? are kidding me? there defensive single handedly won. much with the Patriots. yeah, Brady, hate to say it because i dislike him, is amazing, as is Dillon, but there defense is amazing to watch. i mean Troy Brown played both ends last year, and he did affectively. so yeah, you can have the best offensive in the world, ie: the Colts, but you wont win sh*t if you dont have an above average defensive.

you aren't sh*t if you don't have above average offense either. All of these SUper Bowl teams with good defenses also had above average offenses... Cory Dillon and Tom bBrady are probowl type players... The Bucs' Brad Johnson was one of the NFL's best passers THAT YEAR. Even the Ravens during their Super Bowl Year had Jamal Lewis and one of the NFL's best offensive lines. What about the Rams during their SUperBowl year? Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, who were dominant in their prime. Add in Holt, Bruce and Az Hakim and that is obne of the best offenses in NFL history. That was a team that won on offense.

Defense does not win championships, great team do.

true, great teams win championships, but its the defense that's far more important. please, dont mention the Bucs. i could show you up any day about them. Brad Johnson that year, big whoop. they had Pittman at running back. he's been terrible since Arizona. Alstott is decent. there offensive line was terrible. there recieving core had, Keyshun who cant catch and hold on to a pass to save his life. i give him props for being a middle of the field reciever how ever. Jurvicious, who should be starting as the weak side reciever, not playing slot like he did. and McCardell, i believe you spell it, who's quite old, but can still decently produce. that year there defense did everything, there offense wasnt anything without Gramatica. as for the Rams, yeah, i'll agree, there offense did more then there defense, but look where this, best offense, went. down the drain. Warner blew/blows. Faulk is washed up. Bruse is old. Hakim cant hold on to the ball on any team he's on. there offensive line fell apart when Pace started getting hurt. and the Ravens was another team wasnt that great on offense. Jamal Lewis and the other, the kick returner, that was how they scored there few points. there defense won them that title. and Patriots. Brady is a clutch player. thats it. Dillon on the other hand has always been amazing. but there defense is far better then there offense.

defense is what keeps leads and wins you the game. offense just gets you ahead. defense is what you need to win championships.

The Rams didn't have a good defense and they won it. Their opponents, the Titans were an offensive team too. They relied solely on McNair and George. You can win with offense or defense. Without DIllon and Brady, the Pats don't win the championship. You started rembling on about how bad the Rams offensive players are now. No sh*t... All players get old and lose their ability. That Bucs defense has all but fallen apart. Sapp is worthless, both safeties are average, Singleton is terrible, and Brian Kelly has been on the decline since the Super Bowl.

but also you got to put some of that with the front office for them falling apart. and pfff, Rams had a decent defense. there secondary was far from bad. as was there linebacking with London Fletcher that year. and yeah, without atleast Brady they wouldnt have won. like i said before, i dont like him at all, but i give him props, he's an amazing clutch player.

oh, and Kevin Carter as defensive end that year for the Rams.

Exactly, the Pats wouldn't be a great team without Brady. So you can't say that defenses win championships. That's a stupid cliche'. Great TEAMS win championships, not defenses.

whoa whoa. Brady is good in the clutch. i never said anything about his overall playing abilities. i think as a player, he's vastly overrated. and yes, great TEAMS but a great defense is highly more valuable then a great offense.

Check Brady's numbers. Even if you don't take into account his leadership and decision making, the numbers alone are good enough to consider him great.

pfff, he's overrated. his talent is highly overrated. its almost sickening. i mean, look at Vick. he's far better and more amazing, talent wise, then Brady ever could be, but somehow most still consider Brady better.

Mike Vick is the best QB in the NFL. I am as pro-Vick as you can get. Brady is underrated at times, and overrated at times. His numbers ARE good and without him the Pats are definetly not a super bowl team. However, he is not elite. The elite cast consists of Vick, Culpepper, McNabb, and peyton. That is it.

meh, i'll agree with 3 of those, but Culpepper. meh. i want to see how he does without Moss and if he can ever learn to hang onto the ball when he decides to run and scramble around.

Culpepper was overlooked because of peyton's great year. Off the top of my head, I think Pep had 39 TD's and 10 pics or something like that. That is a tremendous year. I expect his numbers to decline, but I think his rush yards will go up...


and why is there so much hate on Vick? Everyone thinks that he needs to become more of a pocket passer, and that he isn't a real QB...

meh, but look how many of those TD's were caught by Moss before he got hurt. they were saying he was in line to break Marino's record, then Moss went down, and it all ended.

i dunno. i think he just needs to get used to the west coast offense. another reciever would help since Price hasnt done anything. hope the guy they drafted helps. but i think yeah, get used to west coast offense and give a little more time in the pocket before he scrambles and runs. he's going to be washed up and his legs destroyed by 30 if he doesnt learn a bit more patience.

Well, I still think Pep is an elite QB...We will see this year...


And Vick will never be a great passer, or a pocket QB. His legs are his best weapon, and he uses them so well. I am tired of people saying he isn't a good QB. You don't HAVE to be a good passer to be a QB. Peyton passes, Vick runs... You can be succesful either way. Honestly though, I sometimes get chills watching some of Vick's plays. That "levitation play" against Carolina last eyar was great. Also, in the playoffs against the Rams he ahd a 60 yard run which sent chills up and down my spine. This guy is special, he can carry a team by himself.

pfff, he has the best arm in the whole leauge. did you see the pass last year he threw it 60 yards, perfect bullet pass to, blah, forgot his name, got it on the tip of my tounge, but he jumped and he easily should have caught it but it was such a powerful throw, he couldnt hold on to it. but i agree, his legs are his best weapon, but with his arm, if he had a reciever who could burn the secondary he could land a 70 yard fly for a touchdown easily. just think he needs to learn a bit more patience in the pocket.

believe me Curtis, im for Vick as much as you. been watching him since Virgina Tech. just sometimes you got to consider your team more then yourself. if he keeps going at this rate, he wont make 10 seasons in the leauge and leave without a Super Bowl win. he needs a bit more patience.

I'll agree he needs more patience, but I don't think drafting Roddy White was the right decision. That O-Line is terrible, and if Atlanta wanted a receiver, they should've went out and got a star - or nothing at all. The thing he is missing is touch. Every pass is a bullet. The soft lobs are the ones he gets picked off. He has the best arm I have ever seen. Last year against Carolina he was rolling to his RIGHT and got crushed out of bounds by peppers, yet still threw the ball 60 yards downfield. Atlanta's rushing game is as diverse as you can get, so a WR with big time speed makes their offense lethal.

What receiver are you referring too?

Price, Jenkins, White, Finneran?

SOmehow Atlanat ALWAYS beats Carolina, but always loses to Tampa, who is a worse team. Tampa shuts down Vick, but even with the Panthers great defense, ATL is 5-0 when Vick starts.