|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Socialism
  |
| read 167 reaction(s) |
|---|
@ 03-03-2004 05:35 anoobis | 15,407 posts
| Just wanted to know what people thought about socialism. I'll start with my own little lecture.
Now there are many types of socialism, but the one with the most renown and infamy is Marxian socialism. The basis of this principle is the recurrence of class struggle throughout history, which culminates in the victory of the working class over the bourgeoisie, leading to initially a dictatorship, then a steady degradation of government until a purely anarchial and social society is achieved, sort of an equilibrium between chaos and division of power. Personally I find this absurd...firstly, the working class was utterly defeated by the bourgeoisie in a class conflict which never really occurred; it was more of a class conversion. with the industrial revolution, which was supposed to supply the tension and eventual conflict between middle and lower classes, living standards were raised instead of lowered and the working class found greater opportunity to advance its interests instead of being suppressed by the middle and upper classes. So, on that first point socialism was incorrect. On the hybrid of Marxian socialism and certain other doctrines, communism, it found a great trial in the Soviet Union, which really turned out to be a spectacular failure...capitalist nations enjoyed far greater standards of living and equity of opportunity, while the supposedly evil division of wealth was a product of a division of the inherent drive to work and succeed. albeit inheritance can provide a route to undeserving wealth and fame, which is why i say estate taxes should be close to punitive, since no person should be rich because of accident of birth, just as the aristocrats of earlier eras found their influence through accident of birth. equitable division of goods is a very nice dream, but it requires such universal and effective application that it is difficult to foresee such a system being implemented.
your turn! |
| Showing posts 151-167 of 167 | Page 7 of 7 |
| Discussion |
|---|
 0  @ 22-02-2006 21:09 Carinapink16 | 35 posts
| YUP, your right  | | 0 @ 16-03-2006 20:55 Sadi | 115 posts
| i thought that socialism was the totalitarian government that precedes communism, which is the very nice idea of no possessions, everyone doing their share, no war, pretty much what john lennon says in 'imagine.' however, communism gets a bad name because dictatorial socialist gov'ts call themselves communist.
or have i got it backwards? | | 0 @ 23-03-2006 00:39 youstink14 | 38 posts
| all socialist communist anarchists are going to heLL. YOUSTINK14ISM IS THE WAY TO GO. WHERE MY WORD IS LAW | | 0 @ 23-03-2006 00:41 youstink14 | 38 posts
| Also, socialism is the preceder of communism. I think that in socialism there is more of a group rule (i.e. a committe, board, etc.) and that in communism it is socialism except with a dictator and then high officials below the dictator. | | 0 @ 23-03-2006 00:44 youstink14 | 38 posts
| Communism does not work because it becomes totalitarian. Socialism was a great idea that ended up being ruined. To truly know the Marxist ideas we have to ask Marx which, we cannot do. | | 0 @ 25-03-2006 21:21 AlmightyShmun | 1,189 posts
| Man, reading through this stuff was utterly painful, for one very simple reason.
So many people went off about how socialism doesn't work because of "human nature." Really, now? I disagree, to the point where I'm ready to slug somebody. What you people perceive as 'human nature' is nothing more than your own cultural value system. It is foolish and ultimately idiotic to take your own culture's value system and say, "That's how the world works."
We know for a fact that humans have existed for at least 4 million years. That's when we find the first stone tools, and the first human body(Lucy) was dated as 3.5 million years ago(shortened for the purpose of brevity to myo). Agrarian societies did not begin to develop until roughly 200,000 years ago. So, for the first 3,800,000 years of mankind's existence, we were divided entirely into hunter/gatherer bands, nomadic groups of about 15-30 adults. Children are rarely included in the number. And you know something? That whole war thing? Not an issue.
Then, agriculture steps in. When you go and adopt something like agriculture, you take a huge step. You limit your food source dramatically. As foragers, we had an infinite supply of food. If things began looking a little low, all we had to do was pack up and move along. See, that works. It works very well.
Now, when you adopt agriculture, as I said, you limit your food source and the certainty of your survival is suddenly placed in great jeopardy. If something happens to your harvest, you're screwed. So why did we become agrarian? I enjoy Jared Diamond's hypothesis that it was largely an accident. We discovered that we liked certain foods more than others, and began to grow them.
Fast-forward for a few years. When you have a group settle in and become agrarian, not everyone can be a farmer. There's just too much wasted food. So what is to be done? The farmers can't just live by themselves and grow crops. There's no point. And the other members of the band have to do something. So what do they do? They gain power. They start to control the farmer, manipulate him under their sway. The first governments are born. Freedom begins to ebb away.
Let's move forward once more. Empires rise and fall throughout history, declaring war upon one another and enslaving each other. Human suffering builds and builds, and at some point, something has to give...but it doesn't. Disease runs rampant, as does my rant.
What's the point of all this, you might ask? It's simple, really. In those hunting/gathering bands, there exists the first formation of communism. Not Marxist communism, or the Soviet Union rape of the concept, but true, unadulturated focus upon the community. Hell, you could essentially argue that communism IS human nature. Now, in these bands, there is no concept of individual ownership. Mankind, on a very base level, inherently knows and understands that stuff is just stuff. There's nothing special about it. Let's say you had a hat. It's a nice hat. Look at you, with your nice hat. Well, somebody else likes that had, and they say so. What's your first reaction? Probably something to the extent of, "Oh, thanks. I got it at Ross." In a band? "Have it. It's yours." Material possessions are inherently meaningless. All meaning is attached by society.
So yeah. Socialism can work. It did for just under 4 million years. | | 0 @ 01-04-2006 06:03 Kinsdragon1 | 249 posts
| Communism is feared by many due to the intense selfish quality of modern times. Those who say communism cannot work are deeply ignorant and do not understand the concept or the facts. By the way i thought that last post was very interesting about communism in pre-civilization eras. However, then you get into the Rousseau-esque theories that man is naturally good and it is society who corrupts him, which does bear some truth. It is my personal opinion that things will soon reach a certain breaking point in the world during which the power of todays democratic governments will wane. During this time, if an individual with the right qualities is able to eleminate the animosity of the various socialist factions and unite them on a national, or even global front, the idea of a socialist revolution is not at all unrealistic. It would also probably be for the better... | | 0 @ 01-04-2006 06:11 Kinsdragon1 | 249 posts
| Also, many opponents of socialism list the various "failures" of socialism in the world which become increasingly obnoxious after hearing them each repeated hundreds of times. For the record, China is at best a totalitarian oligarchy and only has a faint grain of some kind of perversion of communism/socialism left in it. The same applies to North Korea and Cuba. The Soviet Union was a failure because the attempt was made to spark numerous revolutions in underdeveloped countries simultaneously which would then band together, but it was in truth just a new name for imperialism. And then one must wonder, where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Latin America, Asia, and Eastern Europe?This is not including places such as America which although is globally considered a success, I do not personally consider it one. If capitalism has failed for more than half the world's population can anyone really have the audacity to insult socialism? | | 0 @ 01-04-2006 06:33 thejoedontdie | 425 posts
| Socialism is a nice concept but has no logical appilication to the world. There would be no motivation to improve things if everyone lived together all happy. Competition causes change and there is no way to improve without change. I have lots more to say but i think this gets the point across. We shall see how the arguments stem out. | | 0 @ 01-04-2006 06:45 Kinsdragon1 | 249 posts
| I would have to disagree considering that it has worked in many instances and is still working today, such as in the numerous Kaputzes throughout Israel and various Scandinavian countries. The "no motivation" argument is a very popular one but it fails to acknowledge the similar, and equally problematic, if not moreso issue with capitalism. In capitalism, the competition reaches a point where people are singularly motivated in the pursuit of monetary gain. This leads to unscrupulous business practices such as fraud and embezzlement which exploits the common citizens and the federal government. It also leads to lax regulations, low wages, unreasonable working conditions and essentially every manner of corrupt business that you can think of, which are all present in America. Not being motivated to work merely harms the nation's economy, which although is a problem, can be solved through the intense nationalistic pride that often comes with socialism. Whereas business corruption harms the economy, the people, the government, and the entire world due to malpractice in foreign trade and affairs. | | 0 @ 01-04-2006 06:50 Kinsdragon1 | 249 posts
| I am also a living example that people can live for the common good. I can say with literally no bias or exageration that I would not only not mind working for no money, but would rather work for no money. I have no use for money so I might as well allow my employer to have it for himself because he remains dependant on it. In this way I have done my country a service by working, I have saved my employer the money he needs to live, and (to quote Thoreau) "I am a rich man with no damage to my poverty." | | 0 @ 01-04-2006 16:18 Plantagenet | 
12,864 posts
| a lot of you have really wise points, but still a lot make the mistake of confusing socialism with communism, it really is not the same! | | 0 @ 01-04-2006 16:21 that_wasnt_me | 
1,441 posts
| im not a person of socailism (nor do i know what it truly means) if it means someone is social, then im social. If it means something else, i dunno. I never payed attention in our Vocab section of our Honors English Class. | | 0 @ 01-04-2006 19:02 Kinsdragon1 | 249 posts
| I do not confuse them, I know the differences. I use them interchangeably because communists and socialists must put aside differences if either party wishes to gain any standing in the world. I myself am not entirely sure whether or not I am more of a Trostkyite or a Marxist-Leninist due to their almost undistinguishable differences. | | 0 @ 20-11-2006 19:50 skye_hoppus | 463 posts
| *raises hand* im a socialist!
xxx | | 0 @ 30-01-2007 01:32 victoria325 | 20 posts
| i believe in all idealology socialism is a wonderful idea but then someone up top gets corrupt runs with it and ruins a nation | | 0 @ 04-07-2007 17:51 Theredgreen | 100 posts
| Communism is a wonderful idea, and though we might once have been able to live according to it's concept, we are not any more. That won't change in a second... Society has shaped mankind into what it is today: capitalistic, it doesn't matter if USSR Or USA. The USSR was just a big lie. However if we're gonna make long gone times come back we have to start in steps, not jumps, or everything will collapse. And just by the way, how can you be so sure that the nomads weren't capitalistic. Todays ones are, just very much less than everyone else, 'cause they have everything they want - freedom. Thats what we need. But unfortunatly there're six billion people on our planet, and the number's increasing.
In my opinion, the most important issue today is stepping away from capitalism, at least this extreme form it has become. Steps not Jumps. To make everyone see that we can live in peace, we first must raise everyone to the same standards. So let's fight poverty and western supremacy, and of course the supremacy of money. What is this for a world, where money can buy the hearts and souls of almost everyone? In many markets, like computers, I'll take Microsoft as an example, they're just buying everyone who could threaten their total control over their niche. Or the Oil branch, I mean how on earth can a nation in the 21st century invade a country because of oil resources, and also clamming to be the most modern nation on the planet... And don't try to tell me that society has raised evil. There is something inside humans making them do horrible things, these things might be sustained by a good society - the nomads, or increased by a bad one - civilization, as we call it.
What we have to do is to stand up against people like Bush or Hussein or any other mighty(rich) person abusing the planet, stop them and all these Bill Gates etc. raping the nature and the people that feed upon it. Is it really going to continue like this, many suffering for the good of a few? Let's raise our voices! |
| |
|
|
|
TOP ARTISTS:
Coldplay, Rihanna, Jonas Brothers, Jason Mraz, Lil Wayne, Leona Lewis, Chris Brown, Avril Lavigne, Linkin Park, Miley Cyrus, Mariah Carey, Katy Perry, Paramore, Britney Spears, Taylor Swift, Pussycat Dolls, The, Jordin Sparks, Usher, Colbie Caillat, Camp Rock Cast, Akon, Nickelback, Lifehouse, Eminem, Ne-Yo, Håkan Hellström, Simple Plan, Secondhand Serenade, Kanye West, Sara Bareilles, Evanescence, Jesse McCartney, Death Cab For Cutie, Takida, Celine Dion, Natasha Bedingfield, Metro Station, Kelly Clarkson, Christina Aguilera, Fall Out Boy, One Republic, Flyleaf, Alanis Morissette, Carrie Underwood, Panic! At The Disco, Beatles, The, Alicia Keys, Boys Like Girls, Lars Winnerbäck, Avenged Sevenfold |
| Copyright © 1998-2008 LetsSingIt | add to bookmarks | disclaimer | privacy policy | advertise on this site |
|
|
