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Socialism
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@ 03-03-2004 05:35 anoobis | 15,407 posts
| Just wanted to know what people thought about socialism. I'll start with my own little lecture.
Now there are many types of socialism, but the one with the most renown and infamy is Marxian socialism. The basis of this principle is the recurrence of class struggle throughout history, which culminates in the victory of the working class over the bourgeoisie, leading to initially a dictatorship, then a steady degradation of government until a purely anarchial and social society is achieved, sort of an equilibrium between chaos and division of power. Personally I find this absurd...firstly, the working class was utterly defeated by the bourgeoisie in a class conflict which never really occurred; it was more of a class conversion. with the industrial revolution, which was supposed to supply the tension and eventual conflict between middle and lower classes, living standards were raised instead of lowered and the working class found greater opportunity to advance its interests instead of being suppressed by the middle and upper classes. So, on that first point socialism was incorrect. On the hybrid of Marxian socialism and certain other doctrines, communism, it found a great trial in the Soviet Union, which really turned out to be a spectacular failure...capitalist nations enjoyed far greater standards of living and equity of opportunity, while the supposedly evil division of wealth was a product of a division of the inherent drive to work and succeed. albeit inheritance can provide a route to undeserving wealth and fame, which is why i say estate taxes should be close to punitive, since no person should be rich because of accident of birth, just as the aristocrats of earlier eras found their influence through accident of birth. equitable division of goods is a very nice dream, but it requires such universal and effective application that it is difficult to foresee such a system being implemented.
your turn! |
| Showing posts 101-125 of 167 | Page 5 of 7 |
| Discussion |
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 0  @ 18-07-2004 19:48 CDNRoycer | 1,617 posts
| obviously you dont if you still belive in a party that was humiliatly defeated in 1945 | | 0 @ 18-07-2004 19:49 fishmunky | 
20,433 posts
| of course they dont...lets disregard the fact that im a political science major in univerity...we'll let you have your moment in the sun jerk off | | 0 @ 18-07-2004 19:49 rawkerNoNagal | 9,981 posts
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* offtopic :
lmao to that ^^
| | 0 @ 18-07-2004 19:52 Zaffy | 62 posts
| lol fishmunky... sure u are !!!!
and u have a girl friend and lotza friends in reality 
hmm.... and I also believe in santa claus | | 0 @ 18-07-2004 19:56 fishmunky |
20,433 posts
| well in an effort to stay on topic i'm gonna disregard a petty personal attack on whether or not i have friends or a g/f
* offtopic :
not that its any of your business but i do have a g/f and i do have friends, not many but i have very close friends
but no one cares if you believe in santa....but i guess thats what the internet is for eh, slandering others anonymously | | 0 @ 18-07-2004 19:59 Zaffy | 62 posts
| weellll give some examples on your precious socialism :....: LoL!!!!  | | 0 @ 18-07-2004 20:00 fishmunky |
20,433 posts
| i live in Canada, we have a quasi form of socialism; we have universal health care, government funded education and a decent welfare system
its not perfect but its better than nothing | | 0 @ 18-07-2004 21:29 skye_hoppus | 463 posts
| zaffy - u may know alot about socialism but ur not a very nice person, and i know which of those is the most important in life so get some modesty and grow up!
B
xxx | | 0 @ 19-07-2004 00:42 CDNRoycer | 1,617 posts
| he knows nothing about socialism, he is confusing it with comunism and the problems that brought to eastern europe | | 0 @ 19-07-2004 17:36 Plantagenet | 
12,864 posts
| weellll give some examples on your precious socialism :....: LoL!!!!
in case you can still read this, let this be a biiig burn to you:
I live in Belgium, one of the most wealthiest countries of Europe, and that all thanks to the socialists that were in almost every government ever since WWII! not the liberalists, they weren't so much in the governement at all, don't now how much but not very often at all, so they have nothing to do with the fact that Belgians are so well of.
It's due to our social security system, due to the taxes that we pay, that don't go to random stuff as it does under liberalism, but most of it goes to social welfare, like being sure you still have an income if you can't go work anymore due to healthh problems, etc.
now, all that, an dmany more, is all thanks do the SP (Socialistische Partij) and the PS (Partie socialiste), teh two Belgian socialist parites...
isn't that a big bummer for you to add to your 'gosh-I-didn't-know-that'-list?  | | 0 @ 19-07-2004 22:31 tom_harris4 | 3,369 posts
| I wanna move to Belgium...! We havn't even got a socialist party (of any note). Conservatives, Social Democrates, Liberals and (ahem) UKIP (the top 4 parties in the latest nationwide elections) 
We don't even have trains running on time thanks to privatisation  | | 0 @ 03-08-2004 12:56 cjaym88 | 158 posts
| I will admit that socialism is efficient, but the people do not enough freedom, like the freedom to vote for their leaders. | | 0 @ 04-08-2004 01:15 CDNRoycer | 1,617 posts
| thats communism, not socialism | | 0 @ 04-08-2004 15:37 cjaym88 | 158 posts
| What I've learned in my history class, according to the Texas curriculum, states socialim and communism are the same thing. | | 0 @ 04-08-2004 15:43 NightHobbit | 
23,475 posts
| Communism is Marxism and vice versa created/invented by Carl Marx and the idea was taken up by Lenin. Communism is the wealth shared equally.
now socialism is to unite humanity and to solve social problems by building a society which can satisfy the universal need for....some other word I can't remember. | | 0 @ 14-08-2004 09:29 mob5ta | 5,387 posts
| pure communism is a branch of socialism | | 0 @ 14-08-2004 11:59 Plantagenet |
12,864 posts
| I will admit that socialism is efficient, but the people do not enough freedom, like the freedom to vote for their leaders.
 Belgium IS a democratic country, you know.... | | 0 @ 14-08-2004 12:01 Plantagenet |
12,864 posts
| What I've learned in my history class, according to the Texas curriculum, states socialim and communism are the same thing.
mmmm.......your history class made a biiiiig mistake telling you that! cause it really is NOT the same!
state-socialism is what Belgium had for a short peroid when the socialist got to the power for the first time, and it's wasn't communism at all! | | 0 @ 14-08-2004 12:11 Plantagenet |
12,864 posts
| pure communism is a branch of socialism
not today's socialism, th eevolutin went like this:
1. (pre-)socialism (the founding of Unions in the west of Europe in the 1830ies)
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> 1848: Marx & Engels write their communistic manifesto
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>2. in the 1860ies there are "Internationals" organised: these are communistic meetings to settle communistic parties in Europe, mostly with the goal to make the situation of the labarours in the industrialised regions better.
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>3. people couldn't get to an agreement on these meetings, to some the points were to radical (a), for some they weren't radical enough (b)
==> there were several groupings splitting up:
(a) socialist: those who were no too radical and wanted to put their ideas in political laws, so they founded political parties (these are the fathers of today's socialism)
(b) anarchists: for a short period at the end of the 19th century, individuals tried to settle small anarchistic experiments, but they all failed
c. the original communitics of Marx
--> this last group also fell apart at the turn of the century:
I. Marxism
II. Russian communism (the Bolsjeviki, under Lenin)
Russian communism also didn't stay the same, it turned from relatively livable uner Lenin, to a dictatorial Sovjet communism under Stalin.
you also can find different countries who are communism (China, Cuba, Noth-Korea, etc), most of them are either Leninsim or Stalinism, but few have anything left of Marx. | | 0 @ 15-11-2004 16:02 DemonX | 10 posts
| I think that communism is a great ideology but it is immposible to expect that it would work in todays society->its just that capitalist values(like money) are just too strong in peoples minds that they couldnt give them up.
its quite sad that communism has been abused by some leaders if for nothing else just because they gave communism a bad name. the majority of people now think that communism is something bad and that it kills people. | 0 @ 15-11-2004 17:01 DNA_Maniac | 4,807 posts
| i dont see any differance between communism and fascism.. they got so different idologies from eachother.. but they are both destroying the freewill of human societies...
but socialism is ok.. i find it better then liberalism.. as long as socialism stays away from communism; its the best goverment in world wide nowadays...
btw capitalism is a whole different issue.. its make me sick! i m glad that is offtopic...
and ppl lemme tell you something: esp to plantegenet 
anarchy didnt started by seperating from socialism... it was used ages ago b4 all theese complicated ideas come up.. it just rised again by communists..
* offtopic :
sorry for my english.. i really need to get some sleep....
DRAGS 'N' ALCOHOL | | 0 @ 18-11-2004 08:00 Plantagenet |
12,864 posts
| DNA, I had to study that at University in my second year....you think professors dedicating their lives to it are wrong in this? | | 0 @ 18-11-2004 10:37 Macabovic | 113 posts
| marxism is more of totally left wing communism isnt it? not socialism..?
Karl Marx rote the book on communism (literally) duz ne1 hav a reason y he would be a socialist? | | 0 @ 18-11-2004 18:49 Plantagenet |
12,864 posts
| ^I really didn't understand what you are trying to say
* offtopic :
(could you please write in full words, it would be much easier to understand! thanks!)
| | 0 @ 21-11-2004 18:47 DNA_Maniac | 4,807 posts
| hey plant
yes they r wrong..
cuz thoose anarchist societies r not involved in any part of history...
cuz they r not a civizilation literatully(soory if i spelled it wrong..)
proffesssors dont except them as a civizilations cuz they dont have any capitalistic goverments...
so they historians erased em from history..
it makes others to think in wrong way...
act anarchy is old as despotism...
DRAGS 'N' ALCOHOL |
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