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grammar question, conditionals


29-07-2008 21:41 dark_me
2,284 posts	Ok, I have a problem with Conditionals Type 2 and 3 Can someone explain me the difference between these 2 sentences? If I lost my job, I would go abroad If I had lost my job, I would have gone abroad help, please Thanks

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29-07-2008 21:52 black_ivory
7,155 posts	Well the first is future, and the second is past, isn't it?
29-07-2008 21:54 black_ivory
7,155 posts	Sorry, just realised that might not have been very helpful, let me elaborate: The first sentence suggests that there is a future possibility of the person losing their job, whereas the second sentence suggests that there was such a possibility, but it turned out that they didn't lose their job. Don't really know if that's any clearer actually lol.
29-07-2008 21:56 dark_me
2,284 posts	So If I lost my job, I would go abroad could possibly happen, right? And the other is totally impossible?
29-07-2008 22:01 black_ivory
7,155 posts	Um...I guess. Well, yes, it is impossible in the sense that it is no longer an immediate possibility, but I don't know how helpful it will be to your understanding to think of it that way. I think the distinction between the two tenses might be the simplest way of looking at it, rather than possibilit (or impossibility, as the case may be).
29-07-2008 22:04 dark_me
2,284 posts	Ok, much clear. What confused me was the use of past to mean future Thank you so much, you're officially my new grammar teacher.Just kidding
29-07-2008 22:07 dark_me
2,284 posts	Please, if you find any mistake in my use of English, please let me know Anything!!! for me would be very helpful.
30-07-2008 15:24 Dagor
38,011 posts	for some strange reason, the english use something that looks like a past tense for the conditionalis (I am not sure, but I don't think they make a difference between potentialis and irrealis) .. I think the second one is just to express the past .. it was uncertain in the past, but now it isn't anymore.
30-07-2008 15:25 Dagor
38,011 posts	Carole will know!
30-07-2008 16:11 indiechick_
10,814 posts	^ i was just going to say, let's ask carole
30-07-2008 17:50 carole
28,823 posts	i never knew u could refer to those sentences as "conditionals types 2 and 3", but i guess we have different names according to how we are taught english as a foreign language. anyway, im only answering this because daniel and bruna want me to do it badly. so badly that they're probably very excited about reading this. i'll sign autographs when im done, lovahs. in french we actually have a "past conditional" and a "present conditional", which would definitely help for the translations of these sentences. but in english, there is no such thing as a conditional tense. to express a conditional (that is, possible facts submitted to a condition), u either use the construction "would + verb" or a preterit (which would then be called a modal preterit, meaning that it doesnt express the past tense, but a rupture with reality -- so daniel, when u say that "the english use something that looks like a past tense for the conditionalis", yes they do, but its not a "past" tense, its a "rupture-with-reality" form, if u want). the construction would + have + -en is used to express a past conditional. so the difference between your two sentences is the difference between present conditional and past conditional. in both sentences, but the "me/ lose job" fact is unreal and the chances that it could happen are unknown (hence the "if", its a hypothesis in both cases). If I lost my job, I would go abroad = i havent lost my job, im just imagining the situation, thinking that if something happened and i lost it, i know what i'd do (go abroad). im talking about what i would generally do in the imaginary hypothesis that i lost my job. If I had lost my job, I would have gone abroad = something happened that did put my job in jeopardy, there was a risk that i could lose my job, but in the end it didnt happen. im just stating now, that if the job had been lost, i would have known what to do (go abroad). im only saying what i would have done if circumstances had been different (if i had lost my job). since its a past conditional, maybe i would react differently now. in that sense, that sentence could go "if i had lost my job in 1995, i would have gone abroad. but if i lost my job now, i would stay where i am." i really hope im not the only one who understands what i just said.
30-07-2008 17:53 Cheater138
19,812 posts	i understood... but you sounded so much like a teacher there it scared me.
30-07-2008 18:02 carole
28,823 posts	lol im gonna take it as a compliment
30-07-2008 18:08 Cheater138
19,812 posts	** the hottest teacher ever ^^ that's a compliment
30-07-2008 18:12 dark_me
2,284 posts	If I lost my job, I would go abroad = i havent lost my job, im just imagining the situation, thinking that if something happened and i lost it, i know what i'd do (go abroad). im talking about what i would generally do in the imaginary hypothesis that i lost my job. If I had lost my job, I would have gone abroad = something happened that did put my job in jeopardy, there was a risk that i could lose my job, but in the end it didnt happen. im just stating now, that if the job had been lost, i would have known what to do (go abroad). COOL!! Thank you people! It's so difficult, I mean, I've tried to think these sentences in Spanish but it just made things worse. Now after all the explanantions I finally got it, so thank you. Now, as I see that you are so willing to help me with grammar, ha ha, can you give an example of finite and non finite verbs or clauses
30-07-2008 18:31 carole
28,823 posts	rawr sarah.. i didnt know u thought of me that way lol aaaaand im glad we helped . finite and non finite verbs? well i would be glad to help more but i have no clue what they are. really, never even heard the word "finite" before lol
30-07-2008 19:07 dark_me
2,284 posts	I have an exam in a couple of weeks, that's why I'm trying to clarify my doubts. i've been trying to google it and found this: at least is clearer than the definition in my grammar book. FINITE AND NON-FINITE VERBS. Every main clause needs a finite verb. A finite verb is marked for tense or aspect and needs a subject e.g. he walked. A non-finite verb is not marked for tense or aspect and does not have a subject e.g. having walked, walking slowly….., to walk.
30-07-2008 19:27 indiechick_
10,814 posts	ahhh that was cool. carole is like our grammar superhero who always saves the day in the end of the story.
30-07-2008 19:34 Htd1
23,374 posts	that was the biggest turn on ever
30-07-2008 20:07 Dagor
38,011 posts	I want an autograph!
30-07-2008 20:33 carole
28,823 posts	yay GG also stands for Gabriel's Girl. aww
30-07-2008 20:47 indiechick_
10,814 posts	yay autograph! but you need a cape in order to be a proper super hero... (don't mess with the comic book geeks)
30-07-2008 21:08 dark_me
2,284 posts	Carol,Is it always you the one who solve grammar problems in the forum?
30-07-2008 21:08 carole
28,823 posts	how could i forget.. there
30-07-2008 21:09 indiechick_
10,814 posts	thanks!!
30-07-2008 21:09 carole
28,823 posts	no but i just like to talk about english grammar. and my name is carole