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Web help
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@ 20-01-2007 17:28 NightHobbit | 23,464 posts
| i really dont know where to put it either so if it gets moved to somewhere else it's understandable.
sorry for my crap spelling, i'm really not in the mood right now to check back over things i'm not really in the mood right now to do anything. i'm surprised I have the courage to even speak to anyone, as I feel so ashamed of myself.
At college I always put so much effort and hardwork (i have to put 10 times as much in compared to other people in my class because I'm not at their level of art yet) to only recieve a "oh thats nice" I actually got praise the other day for textiles. I spent ages sewing my samples but only got "need to use a sewing machine to make it look professional" what about all the hardwork and effort i put into it. Sewing machines dont agree with me, it isn't a natural talent of mine. so I've had to buy one and force it to agree with me.
i have a few websites i own. these are my pride and joy. Only because its the only thing I know that I excell in more than everyone else in my class at college. My graphics on the computer are also ten times better than theirs so I thought if I was that good enough I could venture into the designing business.
But at first I recived when I did was 'wow your graphics are amazing' and I had people buying for my works. which I know is so hard for people to achieve.
And then someone commented on my tagboard saying' your site is the worst site ever. no one will ever buy your works it's not even html or css validated' they accused me of using iframes when i don't even know how to.
it upset me so much. the critisim is welcome if its constructive or they have points to beneficially make it better. they said "there are better graphics designers out there than you no one will buy from you because they can get better elsewhere for the same prices". what did after banning them from my tagboard was edit my website to just a tagboard.
their site where their claiming that all my sites use iframes:
here
am i kidding myself thinking i could become a graphics designer?
am i kidding myself in thinking i could be an artist at all? |
| Showing posts 1-21 of 21 | Page 1 of 1 |
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 0  @ 20-01-2007 17:45 TheDom | 9,053 posts
| Personally, I think you are making too big a deal out of it.
The key thing to remember is the fact that you are dealing with art. Art is very subjective. Some people are going to love you & some people are going to call you a fake. Same with the music industry or literature. You've hopefully heard that saying "beauty lies in the eys of the beholder". You are going to get yourself nowhere as an artist if you start crying about somethign like this because not all people are going to be intelligent in their criticism &, believe it or not, some people aren't going to like you or try to be nice about it. I think you have self confidence/self esteem issues that, once you overcome, you will be at your full potential. You just need to be like that little train & repeat "I think I can.. I think I can.." over & over again... | | 0 @ 20-01-2007 18:08 carole | 27,152 posts
| i agree with Dom about the fact that art is subjective. not everybody is gonna appreciate your work and u need to toughen up if u wanna earn a living as an artist.
also, theres a possibility that pple who are artists themselves wanna discourage u by saying u suck, so they can steal your ideas and whatnot. so the best thing u can do is ignore them completely. | | 0 @ 20-01-2007 18:15 Bucephalus | 
2,100 posts
| That's the most serious thing I've seen Dom say.
But, you are making too big a deal out of this for sure. For one, in your class you are supposed to be getting told what to do better. It's what teachers do. If the teacher just told you it was good, then you'd never improve.
And on your website, people post shit like that all the time. Seriously, who even cares? if you don't know them, then it's not important.
This isn't a big deal. | | 0 @ 20-01-2007 18:58 Ray | 
2,239 posts
| You indeed make a big deal about it. Problem is, you don't see that yourself right now, you just started as designer and you're trying to do the best you can to make everybody like your work. You'll receive comments on it and you don't know yet how serious to take each comment.
It is impossible that you will only hear positive reacions. Just as Dom described, art is very subjective, so people simply don't have to like your work. But the majority of the negative comment don't even have to do anything with taste. People often have the intention to burn down your work because they are jealous or want to impress others with how 'cool' they are they say you suck, they're just looking for some attention. I call these negative comments fake.
You can see the difference between the real and fake negative comments easily. The real negative comments are always friendly, constructive and often does contain some (small) positive things in it. They are either meant to point you on something wrong, but encourage you to continue or, tell you it is not what they want/look for, but probably somebody else will. Fake comments often come with insult, bad language, are unfriendly and never contain positive elements in it.
Use the positive comment as a reward for your work, print them out and hang them on the wall  The real negative comments are important, they are usefull feedback and give you direction in your work. The fake ones, ignore them. These are not meant to judge the quality of your work, they were written with other intentions, jealousy or getting attention.
All this you'll learn with time. I have a site too on the web, let's call it X and I had the same struggles in the early days. With time I learned how to treat positve and negative comments. The positive comments make me keep going, make me feel proud on my work. The real negative comments all together tell me in which direction I have to develop the site. The fake comments... I save them for the mornings when I get up, get a coffee and read them, they make my day
I hope this is of any contribution. Now I go back to work on my site X... checking if I have fan mail  | | 0 @ 20-01-2007 19:11 NightHobbit | 23,464 posts
| thank you ray and everyone. i think it was how he phrased as the phrasing was meant to hurt me more than encourage me to do better than anything which is why it pulled the wrong cords with me and got me really upset. which is why i overeacted because of he meant his comments to pull all my cords and make me upset.
I've got over it now but does it matter if i validate the html or css ray? i mean if it looks good does that matter?
could you also tell me if my sites at all use iframes as he says they do. When i only use div layers i thought. I would really like to know this as to try and correct the situation. And becuase it intrigues me.
www.jitt3rbug.co.uk
www.burnedparadise.co.uk
and
www.toxiclullaby.co.uk
If you could check the sources codes for all ray and tell me where the iframes are.
| | 0 @ 20-01-2007 19:15 NightHobbit | 23,464 posts
| also about the art i know it's subjective but i'd really appreciate more constructive cirtism whihc i think is a bit too much to ask for. my art and graphics and designing is practially my life you wouldn't udnerstand if it wasnt going to be your career and as it's a subjective field it means that comments are more liekly to hurt you more because you don't really know if you are better or as bad as they make it out to be. I think that messes up your emotions more than anything. | | 0 @ 20-01-2007 19:36 Ray |
2,239 posts
| About the html/css validation; at www.w3.org you'll find validators which you can use to make your site 'w3'-compliant. Some people want to have the code on their site w3-compliant. It does require to rewrite your code and to leave out methods that are not standard yet. I never validated LSI, I think it will be quite some work to make it w3 compatible. If LSI works on most of the browsers and everybody can work with the site, that's enough for me.
About the frames. I checked you sites. The small boxes with scrollbars within your site are frames. You can make these using the IFRAME, DIV or LAYER tag. I think with stylesheets you can make every element a frame. Your sites look professional. What are the sites about? | | 0 @ 20-01-2007 19:42 Ray |
2,239 posts
| By the way, the 'comment' that made my day today was an entry from the survey. Tears in my eyes.... from laughing 
1. How old are you?
.....16
2. What country are you from?
.....America
3. Are you male or female?
.....Female
4. How long have you been using LetsSingIt?
.....too long
5. How many times per week do you visit LetsSingIt?
.....too many
6. How did you hear about LetsSingIt?
.....google
7. What are your 3 most popular (music-related) websites on the internet?
1. .....not you
2. .....someone besides you
3. .....alyrics.com
8. Are you a member of LetsSingIt?
.....unfortunately
9. Which part of the website do you use? (like: lyrics, artist info, forum, etc.)
.....I usually use it for lyrics but 1. I hate the new layout 2. the lyrics are usually wrong 3. When I type lyrics in the lyrics search engine like for a song called freaking BUILD ME UP BUTTERCUP nothing comes up. Problems with the website much?
10. If you can mention 3 best things you really like on LetsSingIt, what are these?
1. .....absolutely
2. .....positively
3. .....nothing
11. If you could change 3 things on LetsSingIt, what are these?
1. .....official lyrics
2. .....none of this user submitted crap
3. .....a functioning lyrics search engine
12. Which things are you missing on LetsSingIt?
1. .....everything
2. .....that means
3. .....anything
13. What elements of the site do you not use at all?
1. .....this
2. .....site
3. .....sucks
14. How often do you download ringtones on the internet?
.....I am so sick of this website and I'm telling you now, I used to use this, I've been using it since I was twelve and every year it gets crappier and crappier
15. What website do you use to download ringtones?
.....not you
16. How often do you download music on the internet?
.....never
17. What website do you use to download music? (like: napster, emusic, itunes)
.....not you
Please rate the following questions with a number from 1-5.
(1=bad, 2=poor, 3=average, 4=good, 5=excellent) 1
18. Layout of the website: .....total crap
19. Navigation of the website: .....worse than ever
20. How easy is the website to use: .....idiot proof, unfortunately
21. Speed of the website (to load): .....it takes for freaking every to load, regardless of the computer
22. Number of advertisements: .....why the hell do you think it takes so long to load?
23. Quality of the advertisements: .....bull
24. Speed of the searchengine: .....worse than terrible
25. Presentation of searchresults: .....completely horrendous
26. Size of the archive (do you always find what you're looking for?): .....no I rarely find what I'm looking for
27. Quality of the archive (no double entries, no spelling mistakes, etc): .....the archive blows | | 0 @ 20-01-2007 19:52 NightHobbit | 23,464 posts
| i enver realised div layers were frames.
the sites i've been too for tutorials never told me so I never knew about it. and thank you for teh toehr advice i'll tlak more about it later i've gotta go for now. Keep leaving me tips or advice ray it's really needed | | 0 @ 20-01-2007 20:04 Ray |
2,239 posts
| What is a frame and what's not is not really easy to say anymore. With stylesheets you can manipulate everything. DIVs were originally not meant to be frames, but with some styling you can make them a frame. I used it at the mypage, the spot where you can edit your page. The code is loaded in a DIV, styled it with a fixed height, some scrollbars and a editable = "yes" and you got a frame. And did you know I use IFRAMES for the dropdown menus on top for others purposes then its frame propery? Manipulation is everywhere | | 0 @ 21-01-2007 01:29 NightHobbit | 23,464 posts
| are frames really that bad?
whats the difference between an iframe and frame? | | 0 @ 21-01-2007 01:54 Pandora | 
22,875 posts
| I duno anything about this but I just wanted to say that I love you Louee *hugs* .. and wow, Ray talked.. like a normal guy.. that blows my mind.
rockon
tabitha | | 0 @ 22-01-2007 00:23 Bianca_Joan | 628 posts
| I really hope no one has already said this coz I'm gonna look like a total dork.. but..
That doesn't sound like much to worry about. People are good at different things, and the class thing, well, you'll get better at it so you won't have to work as hard to achieve the same...
And your site looks really cool.. I'm sure as you said not many people could do that, and the dude who dissed you is probably one of them. A jealous no-hoper who gets a thrill out of putting your site down.
I'm sure it will all work out, it always does for me! | | 0 @ 22-01-2007 00:52 Dagor | 
33,794 posts
| I know what you mean, tabby .... scary, init? | | 0 @ 22-01-2007 02:18 Bucephalus |
2,100 posts
| Ray actually talked.
Ummm, some of that stuff on the survey is pretty accurate and I think a lot of people would agree | 0 @ 22-01-2007 02:31 DarXide | 
5,676 posts
| Personally, I envy people like Lou who're good at graphic designing/websites etc. Probably because I can't do it. =/ Atleast not as good.
Criticism is a part of life. I'd pursue you to go ahead with graphic designing, though. Perhaps you're skilled in this particular field of art. I can assure you not many are, especially girls (if that helps) | | 0 @ 22-01-2007 02:41 Bucephalus |
2,100 posts
| Yeha ray, you don't take criticism well at all.
Especially in the I Don't Give a Shit thread. | | 0 @ 22-01-2007 14:15 NightHobbit | 23,464 posts
| it's nice to hear so many supportive comments and i found this other guy at deviantart whos a professional web designer and has to produce boards fo work to show at meetings for his clients and says the same as ray "validating doesnt work and those that validate usually fail when it comes to graphics and are computer technicians usually" he also said validation wouldnt matter unless you were using a mircosoft 1.1 client pc so i am relieved on that bit.
web designing is so ficky, but i guess thats why i love it.. | | 0 @ 22-01-2007 14:24 Dagor |
33,794 posts
| let's say that this website isn't validated for sure
I really wonder how many are. Validation is a tricky business. You have to make a validation plan, in which you have to define each eventuality in advance, like if you click there and there and there, what happens then. You have to define acceptance criteria for each of those eventualities.
Validation plans for software contain usually a few hundred pages (depending on what software it is of course). The aim is to guarantee that you get a reproducible outcome. Like I said, not even in big companies every site is validated. | | 0 @ 22-01-2007 21:53 NightHobbit | 23,464 posts
| before i start up can the title of this thread be changed to 'web help'
and ray i put my site back up and this is what i have gotten:
Well, i've decided that the last time I gave critism it wasn't right, far too harsh. So here we go on a constructive critism roll! To sell a design you must show something proffesional. And also design things from scratch. Designing something using a celebrity or anime or even manga isn't good enough. Also, using tables or layered divs is great! Currently you are using fixed divs which is an upgrade from iFrames. Pick up a book and learn how to do these! Also validation is becoming more and more necessary. I advise you learn HTML and CSS properly, and please understand that internal CSS is not good, external is what you need. And one last thing, learn how to do PHP. It's is very dynamic and speeds up downloading times. To bitch back, you know where to go. But take this critism well, and don't close down your site, simply improve, or ask someone who knows what they are doing for some help!
Ben | ****** | 01.22.07 - 8:07 pm | #
i replied with what yuo told me about web designing etc and he said:
he's such a fricken cocky ass about it (giving opinion where not wanted, if t sells it sells theres nothing he can do about that):
Ben ******"
Date: Mon, January 22, 2007 9:35 pm
To: ******
Priority: Normal
Options: View Full Header | View Printable Version
You are wrong about the validating to begin. XHMTML, XML, DHTML, CSS1, CSS2,
CSS2.1 and finally HTML 4.01. Validating systems are there to help you have
transitional or strict coding. Ever noticed that a lot of CSS only works on
Internet Explorer? In order for websites to be cross compatible they must be
valid. A lot of web designers do not notice this. Here is a list of websites
to visit.
http://www.aethereality.net/
http://www.blinding-light.com/
http://www.wildx.org/
http://www.aetherius.net/
You will notice on all of the designs they make, they are valid coding.
Professionals validate their designs for a reason, and a lot of people fail
to see that. Of course, you are right in the fact that clients do not care
about validation, why's that? Because they are NOT web designers.
As a web designer you should understand that look, feel, compatibilty and
presentation is EVERYTHING. Next, to tables! Tables are old, Divs are old,
iFrames are old. As a web designer you should see that so many designers do
not use tables, divs or iFrames anymore. It's all about tableless CSS. For a
nice site you need to explore all mediums of web design and luckily i've had
a chance to do that, i'm currently studying web design at college and
luckily I have passed everything up 'til now and am top in class. I'm not
trying to feed you bullshit by saying that your site is crap, because right
now, your site is basic! You can't sell designs if you are still in basic
designing. No matter how long you have been web designing for, unless you
explore EVERYTHING you are not fit to be called a designer.
I hope you enjoyed your lecture  .
Now I would like to know your views on what he said because h said everything that YOU said was wrong. | | 0 @ 23-01-2007 00:00 Ray |
2,239 posts
| Interesting.
I don't understand what was exactly wrong with what I said. I only gave my personal view on validating & LSI. Validating is a good thing, www.w3.org is on my bookmarks too and I use these tool often.
I think the difference in view about validating between Ben and me, comes from the fact that we are not exactly working in the same area. I understand Ben studies webdesign so he's probably strictly a webdesigner. My area is more then that, webdesign is a just a part of the big picture. Where Ben does one thing 100%, I do many things 75%. I simply don't have the time to do everything 100%. A searchengine optimizer probably tells me LSI is not 100% optimezed. A database expert tells me probably that the multi-server database is not 100% correct. A hardware experct probably tells me that there are even better harddisk to store the data on quickly and easily. An english person probably tells me the spelling is not 100% correct and an administration expert will probably tell me I don't keep my administation perfectly organized. Etc, etc, etc. If I get only as far as 75%, it's fine with me.
In a company you got many people working, everybody is specialized in its own area. Individually they see the beauty of their art, they want to make it as good as they can. This requires time. Time is not always present in a commercial world. If you need to make something in a month, the boss aks you to make it in a week, which is a disaster for you perfection of your art. On LSI I'm sometimes the screaming boss, I put new features online while they should have been tested a bit more. On the other hand, I'm often the timeless designed, building stuff and find myself working too long in the middle of the night working on something that I would like to be perfect, bug-less, warning-less, 100% bullet proove, cross brower, spaces in the correct place, simply beautiful, a state of art. The day after the boss in me comes up wondering why I put so much time is such an unimportant thing Running a site is a matter of give an take so now and then.
LSI is a one-man show, I do everything myself. I have to make choices where I spend my time on. My times goes to the things that need it most. In my ideal world, my site is 100% validated. In the world today, validating LSI is on my list, but not on top.
* offtopic :
Please be carefull with copy-paste emails from others here into the site, because of privacy issues. I removed the personal details.
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