Politics/Religion | Proving "God" Doesn't Exist!

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Proving "God" Doesn't Exist!


15-11-2005 17:27 GothicAtheist
16 posts	Here's my arguement that "god cannot exist: Nothing is perfect Nothing perfect exists Therefore "god" cannot exist

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15-05-2009 03:08 JDolla
9,907 posts	first off you're provoking someone who is on YOUR SIDE. had you taken the time to read more than the first few lines, you would have realized that. second, religion is not comparable to slavery because for the most part people have a choice. people in their natural state would not choose to be enslaved. and what's wrong with having guidelines and rules to live by? are we not better off that most people live by not killing raping and stealing from one another? those are guidelines. those are rules. so why don't you grow up and let people believe what they want for whatever reason they want
15-05-2009 11:17 Captain_Keeta
4,274 posts	Ugh dont even get me started on if god is real or not. ill do you a favor and stay off this topic
15-05-2009 13:43 ZzZzZzZ
2,982 posts	I don't believe in God but I won't claim that he doesn't exist and that people shouldn't believe in him. Aren't we all free to believe in what we want? I respect other people's religion, faith and beliefs and I hope that they do the same with me.
15-05-2009 14:22 talula68082
7,980 posts	it's about respect. i believe, but you (the general 'you,' no one specific) don't have to. you can believe in something else; actually, i HOPE that you have SOMETHING to believe in, something that gets you through, whatever it is. but i won't go around trying to prove that whatever you believe in does not exist. i respect that you chose something different from what i did and expect the same from you.
15-05-2009 15:00 JDolla
9,907 posts	fo sho
19-05-2009 22:35 Metalupurass69
300 posts	first off i read his remark thoroughlly(hes muslim). second off most christians started into their way by their parents and are tought from a young age and are forced into it and they carry it with them and ive been to church the pastors are very convincing. youll believe anything at that age.so technicallly it can be seen as slave like just different minds see it differently. (fyi i got this info from a die hard unbiased christian;jesus often had pissy mood swings so he had ppl kill for him instead of him killing since he was perfect and all....funny how we see charles manson as evil)
19-05-2009 22:44 talula68082
7,980 posts	eh. i was raised catholic and fell away from it during that 'rebellious-i-don't-want-to-be-dragged-to-church' phase. it didn't mean anything to me back then. i just took it for what it was. as i grew older and explored different aspects of it and the effect sharing my spirituality could have with/on other people, i accepted it as my own and believe only because i want to now. while my mom is a practicing catholic, my dad is not. and from both sides, if i found something that was more appealing to me, i don't think they'd banish me from the family or anything stupid like that. all in all, i don't think religion can be compared to slavery. but then i've only read the posts on this page so i'm not talking about anything that you're talking about from the last..
22-05-2009 21:28 Metalupurass69
300 posts	example of my point is the polygamy churches in tx.....
22-05-2009 23:02 talula68082
7,980 posts	there are extremes of everything in the world.
24-05-2009 02:21 Metalupurass69
300 posts	yeah youre right
15-11-2009 12:06 Rome101
5 posts	Let me start off with an important notice: Nobody, ever, in the history of mankind, converted their religion because some kiddo on the internet told them so. There is room for debates but they are mainly philosophical and concern about the way we explain the different stories of our religion. Being an atheist is being more free IMHO. I am free of limitations, free to live my life the way I want to, not the way some figure which never occurred to me tells me. I am a Jew (by tradition, doesn't mean I believe in God), and the Judaism (base for all monotheistic religions) is just too strict. I like eating pork, so why shouldn't I? If God loves me, he'll let me do stuff I like doing as long as it doesn't hurt me. Also, there's just too much 'fog' around all the regulations and since it is our very nature to be mistaken all the time, than if God does indeed exist, we cannot possibly assure ourselves we are worshiping him the way he wants us to (goes for Christianity and Islam as well). Also, I personally find WAYYYY too many illogical events in the Bible. God must be limited to the rules of physics and nature (such as laws of time-line, I can explain if anybody finds it unclear why God is limited), so everything that happens must have a logical explanation to a certain degree. A great example would be The Flood Overload theory (by myself, IDK if anyone else ever thought about that and brought it up). The flood-overload theory claims that if the flood did exist, our world would have been ecologically different (and most probably non-existent). To start with, let's lay out a few known facts: • If God created all living creatures, evolution does not exist. • All living creatures are a part of the food chain. • If too large a portion of the chain will seize to exist, the whole chain would collapse and most living creatures, if not all, won't survive. • A couple dozen types of animals are a big portion and certify for the standard stated above. Now let's see the biblical story of the flood (Noah's ark): • The flood overran the Earth leaving no land for living creatures to live on. • Noah had made an ark and put animals inside to save them and start a new life. • Noah's ark was maximally at the size of a big modern ship and was made of wood. Okay. Now let's see: If we see a living creature today, it means Noah had put this creature's ancestor in the ark, otherwise it couldn't have survived the flood. Noah couldn't have possibly fit every living creature inside the ark alongside his family (Noah, his wife, three sons and the sons' wives). Noah is just a person and therefore obligated to follow the rules of physics - if it's too big, it can't get in. Could Noah succeeded in putting in the ark two of each: an elephant; a giraffe; lions; tigers; pumas; hippopotamuses; all types of birds/snakes/spiders/monkeys/flies/bees/worms? There are dozens of thousands of animals OF EACH TYPE, and he had to put in TWO of each one of those dozens of thousands... So, could he really do that? No considering the fact he couldn't, we can assume there was no flood. If there was no flood, we can bring to question even more biblical stories. If the flood was not real, what assures us the rest is?
15-11-2009 18:05 Captain_Keeta
4,274 posts	That was actually pretty impressive ^
15-11-2009 19:04 Rome101
5 posts	Thank you
15-11-2009 19:18 JDolla
9,907 posts	you, being a jew, should understand that your people are historically good at embellishment. things in the bible that don't seem possible were probably stories told while in captivity or while wandering to keep people entertained. you also have to understand that the world referred to in biblical times refers to the middle east, north africa, and southeastern europe. That was the world as they knew it. look at it this way: if all you knew of the world was your home and possibly the 200 miles that surrounded it and that area flooded, it would be the world flooding to you. you would record it as the entire world flooding if there was water as far as you could see and you knew of very little else
15-11-2009 22:01 Execujetv12
194 posts	I agree with ZzZzZzZ. Whether you believe in God or not, you shouldn't abruptly claim that he does not exist by disrespecting other people's religion or beliefs. As for Gothicatheist; your logic does not prove anything. It is simply your opinion being voiced. I'm not sure where you got the idea that God is perfect or not perfect but maybe you should do more research on the concept before submitting any conclusions. PS- Why do Atheist celebrate Christmas? Christmas to my knowledge is the birth of Jesus of Nazareth who is denominated as the 'son of god'.
15-11-2009 22:07 Execujetv12
194 posts	JDolla has a very good point!
16-11-2009 19:27 Rome101
5 posts	JDolla, you can assume the entire bible was written by bored people, who at best wanted other people to follow certain codes of law. You cannot prove any God-ish interference with what's written in there. I think your view of "it's what they knew so it was the world to them" is a very funny. Place yourself in their very own shoes. And by 'their' I mean the people who lived at those ancient times. You come across a place publicly known as the end of the known world. Would NOBODY ever think of keep walking and map the area or something? It's not like it's blocked with mountains or anything, nearly anywhere you could get up on a mountain or something and scope the area to realize the world does not end there. Also, in a book that is written for, by and in the name of God, you could expect a bit more accuracy. I think people knew the world stretched out further. I think most anybody realized that. You can't look at the big plains of Europe and simply CONVINCE yourself there's nothing there. And if they thought the world ended there, and that nobody could live further, how do you explain the queen of Shiv? (Malkat Shva, the smart African queen who visited Solomon and possibly had sex with him) If God created man, and man did not live outside of the old-known world (Middle-East, North Africa, Little Asia - up to the Hindi Kusch - and Southeast Europe), and if no one dared mapping out the rest of the world, how did people get to America (Aztecs)? How did people reach that far away up to Australia? It was fairly impossible to reach a coast that far beyond the end of the known world, sail off and start communal life there without anyone knowing about that. Eventually someone would come back and say "Guys look I've located the Garden of Eden!!!" - they would think they did because those places (especially America and South America) sure looked like it - a very large variety of creatures never seen before, massive jungles and humans are nowhere to be found there. I would also advise you to keep away from assuming the Jewish stories are fictional because the people were "bored". The Christian stories of a maiden-birth, walking-on-water and coming back to life are no less crazy.
17-11-2009 19:02 BillG
5 posts	It is irrational to attempt to prove existence. You cannot prove the existence of THIS chair. A chair exists (or doesn't) pursuant to the definition of the word exist. Therefore, even if you produce the leprechaun and show him sitting next to you right now, you still didn't prove that the leprechaun exists. If you cannot produce the Moon right here and now, does the Moon not exist? [http://hubpages.com/hub/Why-God-Doesnt-Exist-Proof] Even more irrational is to claim that you believe (theists) or that you don't believe (atheists) that God exists. If I don't believe that your right arm exists, does it disappear? Hopefully, God exists (or doesn't) irrespective of what humans believe. Otherwise, poor God would appear when the religionist believes and disappear when the skeptic disbelieves. [http://hubpages.com/hub/Why-God-Doesnt-Exist] In Science, whether God exists or doesn't is settled objectively. We define the crucial word exist and then God, a leprechaun, an ET, and your arm exist (or don't) by definition.
17-11-2009 20:07 JDolla
9,907 posts	Would NOBODY ever think of keep walking and map the area or something? how long was it before the west began to trade with china? before they even knew the existence of china? The only reason for exploration in this time period was expansion, and expansion was slow in rural areas of the time. there was no need. sure people walked just to see what was out there, but there were not many. honestly, living in that time, if i had the chance to stay in a secure home where i knew how to find food keep shelter and have a job i wouldn't wander just to see what i find. it would go against basic survival instincts. You can't look at the big plains of Europe and simply CONVINCE yourself there's nothing there. but if you look ad a vast desert void of life as far as you can see after walking for two days in every direction, it's alot easier to say that there must be nothing else out there And if they thought the world ended there, and that nobody could live further, how do you explain the queen of Shiv? how many hundreds or thousands of years passed between the time of Noah and the time of Solomon? as times change, more things become known including geography. I would also advise you to keep away from assuming the Jewish stories are fictional because the people were "bored". The Christian stories of a maiden-birth, walking-on-water and coming back to life are no less crazy. I never claimed them to be sane, or less outlandish. what is currently accepted as the christian bible was compiled and edited a century or more after the events took place. there's a ton of room for error, embellishment, and even manipulation.
18-11-2009 22:13 Rome101
5 posts	JDolla, I'll go from last to first: You are right, lot of room for the best words possible (to describe how I think the bibles were created) - error and manipulation. It is not the question of geography. It is more of "How the *uck did humans reach the richer plains of Africa without evolution? If they just wandered off there, they would send someone to inform as it's the most exciting world-news for them at the time. We know they didn't wander there because the people of Solomon were very surprised to see people from an unknown place - and also, their skin color was different, something that cannot happen without evolution (skin-cells adapt to the impacts of sunburns and create a better defended system which results in black skin). If it was an act of God to change the skin color - it would have been informed in the bible. You are right when it comes to Africa and Asia - deserted deserts. But Europe was PERFECT for settling down and was even richer in natural resources than Armenia (which if I remember correctly was the last line of settlement in the biblical times). As far as jobs go - Europe is better for jobs than the old world. There's a lot more rain and water resources and the plains aren't full of hills everywhere. Since everyone had to work their own farm, farmers had to adapt hillside-irrigation. Much less effective as plain irrigation. BillG: It is very simple to determine what exists and what does not. Considering our reality is real, and we don't live in any kind of Matrix, we can define "exists" by claiming that everything we can sense with one or more of our five senses (sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch) is real. If you can sense your arm with all five senses (you can smell it, you can of course touch it, you can taste it if you lick it, you can hear it if it touches anything and you can of course see it) it is most definitely real. With that said, we can ASSUME something is real based on experience and history without actually sense it. We know there is ice on the unseen insides of glaziers because every time we have drilled into many glaziers before and had seen ice. It also makes sense (in logic terms) that an ice glazier is made of ice and is full of it - since water formed around water and froze into ice. We can calculate the existence of black holes even though nobody had ever encountered them before. What we know is real, and what is real is common knowledge until proven otherwise. If it can be given a reason, a procedure and a consequence, it is real because we know it's happening, based on our logic. You can claim there are only a few hundred pigeons on the whole world and claim that we see them world-wide because they travel at the speed of light. But because it goes against the laws of physics, we know it's not real and that there are many hundreds of thousands of pigeons. Why? Because it's basic logic, because nothing can travel at the speed of light. Until proven otherwise, what we know based on logic (that includes the senses and previous experience) is real. When we're proven otherwise, we will change what we think to be real.
18-11-2009 23:08 Captain_Keeta
4,274 posts	You are right, lot of room for the best words possible (to describe how I think the bibles were created) - error and manipulation. I'm gonna get hooked by doing talk on this topic. but oh well. Okay. I'm just gonna say how would you not beilieve in god!? im telling you. he was a real living thing. It is 2009 A.D not 2009 B.C. Well what do you think A.D means? A direction? NO! A dork? NO. after death? Hmm. DUH! God was a real man. Now if you dont beilieve ing do. FINE. That's your own problem. CHECK THE BIBLE. Maybe some people should trry church. Hmm that sounds delightful ISNT IT HUH!?!?!!?!?!?!?! I have to copy and paste one more thing. how long was it before the west began to trade with china? before they even knew the existence of china? The only reason for exploration in this time period was expansion, and expansion was slow in rural areas of the time. there was no need. sure people walked just to see what was out there, but there were not many. honestly, living in that time, if i had the chance to stay in a secure home where i knew how to find food keep shelter and have a job i wouldn't wander just to see what i find. it would go against basic survival instincts. JDolla just nailed it there. now if you dont beiliev in god. FINE. Who cares!?!? Your own beilief not mine. OUT. * offtopic : I am starting to get into this now.
19-11-2009 09:05 Dagor
38,012 posts	As far as jobs go - Europe is better for jobs than the old world. There's a lot more rain and water resources and the plains aren't full of hills everywhere. Since everyone had to work their own farm, farmers had to adapt hillside-irrigation. Much less effective as plain irrigation. you forget one thing .. that climate variations take place. During the roman empire, Lybia was considered to be the granary of Rome. If you see Lybia now, you won't think of it as such
19-11-2009 12:37 Captain_Keeta
4,274 posts	you forget one thing .. that climate variations take place. During the roman empire, Lybia was considered to be the granary of Rome. If you see Lybia now, you won't think of it as such Well what do you think "God" and "Jesus" mean? Great Orly? Do be or not do be Joyful Energetic So was real =] Ummm he was here So he was really here, a living thing on EARTH!?!?! I think you get my point.
19-11-2009 13:05 Dagor
38,012 posts	what the f are you talking about?? How on earth does that relate in any way to what you quote?
19-11-2009 13:06 Dagor
38,012 posts	(In a way your unstructered post reminds me a lot of Ludman)