Politics/Religion | Proving "God" Doesn't Exist!

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Proving "God" Doesn't Exist!

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@ 15-11-2005 17:27 GothicAtheist
16 posts	Here's my arguement that "god cannot exist: Nothing is perfect Nothing perfect exists Therefore "god" cannot exist

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Discussion
0 @ 18-04-2008 14:32 vandy
9,508 posts	I've met people in poverty though that have a very real and genuine spirituality. I mean POVERTY like hillsides of Tijuana poverty. Yes, God is comfort for them. He is for me, too. But they also thank Him for what they have in their lives. I don't know how to further explain the "advanced spirituality" but it's more than just a comfort thing for them.
0 @ 19-04-2008 15:43 andro
42,248 posts	Comfort? I think not
0 @ 19-04-2008 17:32 vandy
9,508 posts	that was the most terrifying thing I've ever seen.
0 @ 19-04-2008 19:42 indiechick_
8,597 posts	say you're christian - it's impossible to go to heaven if abiding by the ten commandments is what needs to be done. The Ninth Commandment: You shall not bear false witness. Have you ever told a lie? Then you are a liar. How many lies do you have to tell to be a liar? Just one. The Bible warns that all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. You may not think deceitfulness is a serious sin. God does! (taken from this website.) then your girlfriend asks you: "have i gained weight?". there's your lie right there.
0 @ 19-04-2008 23:23 vandy
9,508 posts	Who told you that you have to obey all 10 commandments your whole life to go to heaven?? (according to the christian religion)
0 @ 20-04-2008 00:01 indiechick_
8,597 posts	ludman. this website. lots of other fundamentalist christians in general.
0 @ 20-04-2008 00:17 Joeyy
2,893 posts	"then your girlfriend asks you: "have i gained weight?". there's your lie right there." Only if you lie to your girlfriend (and what if she hasn't? ). I never notice when a girl gains weight (unless it's a lotta lot). Anyway, it's not impossible to not lie; we're just selfish or/and believe lies to be easier than the truth - which may be true but doesn't make lying right whether you're religious or not. Little kids are told by any kind of parent not to lie but even from a young age we do tend to. And some people in the same religion believe different things.
0 @ 20-04-2008 00:34 indiechick_
8,597 posts	well one of my exes did gain a bit of weight and i'd rather go to hell than point it out to her and put up with drama. seriously! i agree that lying isn't right, whether you're religious or not. i was just pointing out how some people make religion impossible. by some people i mean extremists, we're talking about christianity here but i've seen some absurdities in many other religions as well.
0 @ 20-04-2008 08:41 vandy
9,508 posts	you can't base a whole group's beliefs on a few extremists. It's not fair. Christianity is a religion of forgiveness. It is actually quite antithetical to the teachings of Christ that one breaking of the 10 commandments will send you to hell.
0 @ 20-04-2008 16:01 PunkRckr8
9,392 posts	I've met people in poverty though that have a very real and genuine spirituality. I mean POVERTY like hillsides of Tijuana poverty. Yes, God is comfort for them. He is for me, too. But they also thank Him for what they have in their lives. I don't know how to further explain the "advanced spirituality" but it's more than just a comfort thing for them. I'll jump in here, because while on my service trip to Costa Rica (yes I haven't posted pictures or a blog yet, maybe it will happen today if everyone is nice about it) I encountered a great deal of the advanced spirituality that you are referencing, and it is quite admirable that people hold faith in such high regard and thank God for his actions. But then if you think about it from a different perspective, mine, I immediately feel as though thanking God for anything diminishes the worth of the actions of others and your own actions. I can completely understand having strong faith and religion, but I can't understand why everything must be done "by the grace of God". What about the hard work, compassion, and good heartedness of people themselves? It honestly offends me that when things work out do to our own trials and tribulations that its so easily passed on to a higher being. I suppose my point is similar to Daniel's, in that its frustrating that good people, with such clear and admirable faith, don't give themselves and others respect or at least notice for what they themselves do, instead of God.
0 @ 20-04-2008 17:05 indiechick_
8,597 posts	you can't base a whole group's beliefs on a few extremists. it's the same thing as you trying to convince us to base christianity on your way of seeing it. you're a minority as well, as daniel pointed out a few posts ago. and i was specifically talking about the ones who say absurdities, i thought copying and pasting the website would make that clear, because if you read what's there, they portrait god as a punisher.
0 @ 20-04-2008 20:13 vandy
9,508 posts	The people you talk about are a much smaller minority than I am. Jewish people might believe that you have to obey all of the 10 commandments. But the whole point of Christianity is that Christ came to forgive. SO saying you're going to hell if you don't do x y and z is pretty contrary to the whole point. I worry sometimes that it's the crazy extremists that get portrayed in the media and on movies and stuff and people think all Christians are like that. It's really, really not true. I'm a strange mix of being a very orthodox Catholic with kind of a liberal mindset, and some might not be as liberal as me, but there are very few Christians I know that will tell you that any one thing you do is sending you straight to hell. Cuz if we go to hell for breakign one commandment, let's face it, everyone's screwed.
0 @ 21-04-2008 00:05 Mr_Pie_Guy_69
1,209 posts	I just chose not to believe in god because i think it's all silly...just one man's opinion.
0 @ 21-04-2008 11:20 Dagor
33,249 posts	I am a bit sceptical about the image that megan is trying to give about this moonshine and roses kind of christianity. The country I am coming from was 100% catholic until the 50s/60s for at least 10 centuries. More and more people turned their backs against religion during the last decades, so what you have now is catholicism and atheism with catholic background. What I experienced has got very little to do with the picture that megan is trying to give here. Even now, the leading person (the pope) is conservative to the bone. There isn't a trace of liberal opinions in sight. Name any word that deviates from the traditional norm (like homo, xeno, ...) .. add phobic to that and you'll have a pretty good picture of at least 80% of (the few remaining) christians around here. Not that many people bother about religion at all anymore. Hardly anyone goes to church .. the situation might be a bit different in regions and countries with a protestant part.
0 @ 21-04-2008 13:28 vandy
9,508 posts	Hmm...It's quite possible that both of our perceptions of religion are heavily colored by the environment we grew up in. Mine was very different from yours.
0 @ 18-05-2008 13:41 DaSynth
218 posts	Could we please stop arguing about whose religion is right, and get back to proving whether or not a god exists....jesus christ!!!
0 @ 18-05-2008 19:26 Pop_killer
6,729 posts	Aurgh... it's a shame the first post on this thread makes such a crap argument. I think i've posted here before... You can't prove God doesn't exist, unfortunately, argue as much as you like. However, from my point of view, trying to prove that god exists is like trying to prove the Earth's core is made of Cheese; you can't be absolutely sure, but you'd still bet your life it isn't true. The reasons why I think God is a myth is not because of the fairytales that the bible trys to tell us are literally true. It's not because the creation story has been as good as proven wrong or because science has killed off alot of the religious explanations left. It's how closely it resembles a power-hungry system of control. Thankfully, modern Christianity doesn't usually dominate your life to the point where you're not allowed to live it (with the exception of self-righteous preaching jackasses like Ludman and the guy who posted about the magical 23 minute journey to the hell I dont believe exists either). However most religion, and still Christianity to a degree, are hell bent on making you feel ashamed to be a human being and having to spend your life repaying it so that you don't get roasted alive for all eternity (or perhaps reincarnated as a tree, or god forbid a woman, as most religions are so blatently sexist it is disgusting). Harsh huh? You can see why alot of people would get muscled into it. And all for some great evil that some of our stupid ancestors did however many thousands of years ago. It's funny how the all loving God curses all generations to follow Adam and Eve before they've even been born. (Hey! I know! I'll go back to before I was born and fix it, shall I? It can't be that hard right? I mean, it's still my fault after all; that means I could've done something differently all that time ago. Aparently.) Ridiculous. Now, how easy is that to liken to the leadership of tyrants like Sadam Huasain (I cant spell his name and he isn't worth the effort anyway) and Robert Mugabe? You have/had to do what they told you, or you get/got beaten up, raped or murdered. It's called blackmail, and that is EXACTLY what religion is. It has been adopted by societies in the past as a way of keeping the poplation under control, which is why it bears the disguise of morality when in most cases it is difficult to get more immoral. Think about the Romans - at first, they were totally against Christianity. Jesus was (supposedly) crucified by them. Christians were hunted down, and so on. But then, all of a sudden, the Roman Empire turned Christian. I wonder why that was? Do you think it might have been that the increasing number of Christians in their Empire meant a god-shift would make it easier for them to govern? Religion isnt just a control also, it is an excuse. Why does the Kuran tell muslims that they must kill enemies of Islam or Jews? Or whatever the hell it says.. it's been interpreted in so many different and ridiculous ways that I don't think anyones really sure what it means anymore. Why? Because it is a convenient excuse for wars and fighting. Probably long in the past, when the desert religions were all trying to kill each other ("Worship no other god but me" commandment anyone?) it would've been very easy for the Islamic leaders to say "Hey, look! The holy book tells us to kill these people, so it must be okay!" Pah. A more modern example of this is the spells phonetically sharia law pheasco, because people think their religion gives them the right to superior treatment. I am tired of hearing about all these pathetic and horrifying news stories about how religion has screwed over even more people. Why were the churches and mosques the only buildings left standing after the tsunami? Gods will? The hell it was; it's because more effort was put into building them properly than the houses in which people lived. How many more muslim girls have to be murdered before arranged marriages are abolished completely, and these girls actually have an influence in their own lives? And when are we going to get rid of all of these religious primary schools which taint the unformed minds of children before they have chance to think for themselves? Religion is a system of control. And I bet whoever conjured it up is laughing his ass off wherever he is right now. That is why i believe god is a lie. Religion shows all the signs of being invented by some typical power-hungry human being. If God exists, he/she/it (i'll use he to save time, feminists back off please) should tell us himself. I don't want to hear it from some idiot fanaticist who has no more of an idea than I do. And if he does show himself, i'll be the first to tell him where to stick it. [/rant]
0 @ 18-05-2008 19:26 Pop_killer
6,729 posts	* offtopic : hmm, that's alittle long X_X
0 @ 18-05-2008 22:05 Joeyy
2,893 posts	"it's been interpreted in so many different and ridiculous ways that I don't think anyones really sure what it means anymore." Ok. Now who is it who interprets it? Do we have no free will or control? Do religious people read the words in the Bible or other books and then somehow those preachings strap a bomb on them, walk them to a public place and trigger the bomb so they explode? Or do those people absorb what they're told and believe everything like they can't think for themselves? For some, it's drilled into them, I get that. It's hard not to hear something so many times and not believe it, especially if you have no choice in what you're hearing (like taken by a parent to church or told about stuff a lot until you can say "no" and get away with it). But obviously religion isn't genetically determined, so everything is ultimately our choice and decision of what to believe and how we act on those believes. I'm sick of people saying crap like that. Is it like a mood disorder screwing up sh.t in your brain? Don't think soo. Nothing biological about it. Yes, it's the words in religion telling humans this and that is wrong, but do people Have to believe and act upon what is said? No, they choose to. Why? Because that's the way people are. Non-religious people do it too. Science. Spits the word You can't prove so many things in science and note the "theories" part. Even things they think are proven are changed by another scientist discovering something new. We hear some new theory, or old we haven't heard before, and of course it's true because it's science and a clever authority figure is saying so, saying it's proven . Bull. Love is so strange. If it's scientific, hormones, why do we feel it so much in our hearts? The sinking, stabbing pains we can get there when something isn't right with the person we're in love with. In the South Park episodes 'Go God Go' and 'Go God Go 2', religion is wiped out, it goes to five hundred years on and there's fighting as much as there is now, with religion. Different "Atheist Alliances". It's the way we are. If something sounds the most logical to someone (and of course we all have different ideas as to what that is, based on not only how our minds work because of biology, or our environment, but how we feel and who we are), or the best option, they believe it. They might interpret something very differently to how someone else does who believes in the same concept. Like in religion, obviously not everyone of the same faith even believes the same ideas, just on the whole. We don't agree, we debate, argue. Only people who can't form their own opinions in the slightest and are radical and have no "normal" morals (don't kill?) are extreme. It's the same in everything, not just religion. If it was religion's fault, every strongly religious person would do such terrible things. It isn't, it's the weaker, idiotic humans choosing to do so for various reasons, none that someone with a mind of their own would justify. I don't believe in God because of what the Bible says, I'm not homophobic, sexist, racist, but I have my faith. That's because of the type of person I am, and what else I believe. Because you believe and act how you choose to, nothing makes you. There is no excuse. Humans can be so disgusting, so obedient and weak. Pathetic. But all individual nutters . * offtopic : That's why I love to observe and study us.
0 @ 18-05-2008 22:06 Joeyy
2,893 posts	* offtopic : Oops. *
0 @ 18-05-2008 23:00 Pop_killer
6,729 posts	Okay I think the first part of that is having a go at me. I'm not really sure though. Who is it who interprets it? Well the people who read it, true. But the thing with the Kuran and most relgious texts is that they've been battered so much by social change and, yes, scientific discovery (I hope you're not trying to tell me the Earth is flat and is orbited by the sun, because i think "theory" is a pretty weak word there, don't you?) that you can draw pretty much whatever conclusion you feel like from it. That's why Islam manages to be both a religion of peace and a religion or terror simultaneously. Because people draw conclusions based on what they want to see and use it as an excuse. And, frankly, for people to interpret it like that in the first place, i dont think the book is completely moral in the first place, do you? So dont tell me it's people that make religion evil. ... well, it is, but it's the people who crafted the religion that did, not the people reading into it now. My point was religion is used to control people and blackmail and brainwash them. I'm well aware that some people can make their own decisions (thats why I don't believe it for a minute, after all). I don't see the point of what you've written there really. However some people might has well have religion in their genetics, because it is so heavily drilled into them that they cannot possibly think any other way. That is NOT freedom to choose. No way. If you're raised in a religion from birth, and dont you'll be kiled if you turn your back on it, would you? It might in your society feel like you can make whatever the hell choice you want, but it hasnt always been that way and i many places it still isnt now. Dont delude yourself. I agree with you on the love thing. I dont think science has any credit there at all. Yeah, perhaps "technically" love is a bunch of chemical reactions, but it's far too powerful to follow simple rules like that. It's not that predictable. If a scientist came up to me and said that I was just sentimental for feeling love i'd tell him to get a (l/w)ife. I've seen that episode of South Park and it is massively exaggerated. Yes, humans will always fight each other, but not over how not to believe in anything. I'd just rather we thought over something more meaningful than whether "god" is called Jehova or Allah. And by the way, people who can't form thier own opinions are known as Apathtic, not radical. A radical person forces extreme views on other people.
0 @ 19-05-2008 00:02 Joeyy
2,893 posts	but it's the people who crafted the religion that did, not the people reading into it now. Still all comes back to people, that's all I'm saying. Those people are letting past people influence what they think. The episode isn't saying we argue over how not to believe something. It's saying we'd argue and fight and have wars whether religion exists or not. Everything in South Park is exaggerated, it shows us how ridiculous different issues are. I know it means extreme, I was saying that the extremists/the ones who are radical in their opinions of religion are the people who couldn't form their own views, think or consider nothing else, in the first place and so they've taken on the ones of a religion on an extreme level. Whether it's because it's been drilled into them from childhood or for another reason.
0 @ 19-05-2008 14:54 Pop_killer
6,729 posts	lol just because someone had the free will to invent a religion to control everyone doesnt make it any better. Yes, humans will always fight each other, but as i've already said, I'd prefer it if it was for more genuine reasons than who's worshipping the right god. Those people cant form their own opinions because they're not allowed to. However some of these radical "clerics" and such are quite capable of forming their own opinions and abuse it.
-1 @ 19-05-2008 22:51 MiaKaitlyn
43 posts	Okay. Where do I begin? First off, amen vandy. Annd someone said something about nothing perfect exists on earth? Well God isn't on earth He is in heaven, duh! Oh, and miss Gothic chick or whatever I totally agree with all those who said if you are an athiest, why are you wasting your time trying to prove whether or not God exists? God is real. End of story. -MiaKaitlyn
0 @ 19-05-2008 23:39 Pop_killer
6,729 posts	Annd someone said something about nothing perfect exists on earth? Well God isn't on earth He is in heaven, duh! So God's perfect is he? Well that remains to be seen. I suppose he told you that himself did he?