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The Abortion Thread


06-04-2005 16:37 Lind_
12 posts	Hey you guys!!! We're doing this projekt in school about an ethical dilemma , and Iv'e chosen abortion. Could be really usefull to hear your oppinion and why you think like you do. So if you feel for it pls write what you think about it. xox Linda

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14-11-2008 22:51 TheChristianGuy
32 posts	I want to thank all of you who dares to go against the politically correct point of view that it's the mothers choice. I live in Sweden, the land with the highest abortion rates (per habitant) in the world. And i'm getting so sick of it. According to me it's our times biggest mass murder.
14-11-2008 22:56 Pandora
23,369 posts	it really is actually a part of the mother's body... it cannot survive outside the womb until around 24 or so weeks, so technically it's not its own person until it's born.. rockon tabitha
14-11-2008 23:45 Bucephalus
3,869 posts	I am pro abortion. I support abortion.... Not to be an ass (I am sure I could find better ways to be an ass, and I'm sure I have before), but just because I believe that it is ok to abort a fetus because I do not believe it is a person while in the womb. The world is over populated already, and when you put it up for adoption, you're putting another child through foster homes, shelters, etc.
15-11-2008 02:06 Dagor
38,005 posts	what kind of a choice is that if there is only one valid option??? this is something that is a part of life, it exists with or without God. I do not agree .. a choice with only one valid option is not a choice, it is an apparent choice, hence no choice at all. Cake or death is not a choice, it is a necessity. Keeping a child after being raped or abortion is not a choice, it is a necessity. No people should be judged by following a necessity. No people should hinder other ones to go for the necessary option.
15-11-2008 02:08 Dagor
38,005 posts	The world is over populated already, and when you put it up for adoption, you're putting another child through foster homes, shelters exactly .. that is part of the necessity as well .. abortion or putting a child through hell is not a choice .. there is not even one good option here, but the necessity determines what to do ..
15-11-2008 02:17 zjenn4
13,215 posts	I can see everyone's points, but, since we are talking about choices here, by choosing abortion and claiming it is a necessity, we're basically saying, that it is necessary to kill that potential human being because the planet is over-populated and because we think that it's life would be bad because it would be put up for adoption. What if we could ask it what it's CHOICE would be. To die, or takes it's chances in the world. Maybe it would be adopted by a kind and loving family, maybe it wouldn't. Who are we to decide the choice for that potential person? We aren't even giving it a chance, we are making the choice for it. A child created from a rape is probably like what, at most 3% out of all pregnancies, if that? I don't think anyone can argue that the majority of pregnancies, are because of irresponsible people having sex, and then not wanting to be responsible for their actions, so they look for the easiest way out, by simply getting rid of the "problem." I mean, there a lot of people who are anti-death penalty, not wanting to take the lives of convicted felons and repeat offenders, but are okay with the killing of an innocent human being. So, let's keep alive the bad humans, and kill the innocent ones? I think that is strange.
15-11-2008 02:46 vandy
9,642 posts	Tab, from the moment a child is conceived it has its own genetic code. It cannot possibly be a part of the mother's body. Did you know that a baby conceived by a mother who has HIV has only a 25% chance of contracting the infection himself or herself? This is because mom and baby don't even share the same blood. The child is indisputably its own person.
15-11-2008 03:10 Dagor
38,005 posts	by choosing abortion and claiming it is a necessity, we're basically saying, that it is necessary to kill that potential human being aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrggggllllllllllllllllllll you totally misunderstood what i was saying
15-11-2008 03:12 Dagor
38,005 posts	i was merely pointing out that some choices are not _real_ choices .. they are not choices at all!
15-11-2008 03:17 Dagor
38,005 posts	The child is indisputably its own person a. it is not a child, it is a foetus b. it is not a person .. it is only a person if a person was reduced to his genetic code. That would mean that a murderer is a murderer because of his genetic code and that is absurd. I am not pro-abortion .. I am merely saying that there are sometimes no choices and that we can't judge about people who are confronted with the necessities ..
15-11-2008 06:06 vandy
9,642 posts	but a murderer is a person because of his genetic code. that's not a good analogy. and the child in the womb is a fetus. that is the stage of development of the child. it is still appropriate to refer to that particular human being as a child.
15-11-2008 09:07 Bucephalus
3,869 posts	The child is indisputably its own person. The fetus and mother are connected and share nutrients, food, etc... So I do not consider a fetus a person. And also, to whoever said about the possibility of a child being happily adopted... If that child becomes adopted by a great family, then another child who would have been adopted by them is forced through a terrible life.
15-11-2008 10:07 vandy
9,642 posts	conjoined twins could conceivably share some of those things... but they still each have their own, separate, genetic code. they are NOT the same people.
15-11-2008 10:37 Bucephalus
3,869 posts	They aren't people, period... They are 100% dependent on the mother. I don't believe you're a person until birth
15-11-2008 13:32 Dagor
38,005 posts	but a murderer is a person because of his genetic code. that's not a good analogy. You missed the point. A person is not a lump of cells. It is a body with a mind and a personality and an awareness. A genetic code alone does not make a murderer, there are a million of things in his life that steered him and made him a murderer. A genetic code alone does not make a murderer. And speaking of a fetus as a child is only evoking pictures that are not justified. A fetus doesn't smile, doesn't know love. It is a heap of cells, there is no cognitive brain, it has no senses, hence no ways of receiving signals of the world. It has no awareness, it is not viable. It is just a lump of cells. It is certainly not a person
15-11-2008 14:58 vandy
9,642 posts	You say that a fetus cannot feel, etc, but those aren't hard, cold facts. In fact, they are disputed by science. And Curt, you claim that you BELIEVE that a fetus is not a person. That is your belief. However, that does not make it a fact. Even if one cannot prove that life begins at conception, the implication that it COULD should be enough to protect its rights to live. I believe that a fetus's right to survive is greater than the mother's right to live her life however she wants. I believe (and feel free to dispute this) that the root of the abortion problem is that our society tells us that we should be able to have sex however, whenever we want, without responsibility for the consequences.
15-11-2008 15:24 Bucephalus
3,869 posts	I think that society is more geared towards safe sex than ever before... I see so many commercials and shit on popular television channels that I don't know how some people don't know about protection or how people even get unintentionally pregnant. I feel much more comfortable protecting the rights of a woman than the rights of a ball of cells that has a small chance of being able to feel. The woman is living, and I see no point in forcing her to have a baby that she does not want. By forcing someone to keep their fetus and give birth to it, you're causing either another child up for adoption (which means one more child living a terrible life), trying and raise a child that they can not support and provide things for, or try and abort it herself.
15-11-2008 16:19 vandy
9,642 posts	I work with people who give kids up for adoption all the time. Let me tell you, it's just the horror stories that you hear about, that are really like maybe 3% of all cases. Most kids who get adopted have good lives. Do you really know what you're talking about or are you just buying into the media?
15-11-2008 16:26 Bucephalus
3,869 posts	The media? I'm tired of hearing the phrase "You just listen to the media." It comes up in like every conversation... Anyways, I have never seen the media portray adoption as terrible, usually they portay it as a good thing... But even if a kid is put up for adoption and get adopted by kickass parents and live awesome lives, they are just taking the place of another kid who now will not get that chance.
15-11-2008 16:30 Dagor
38,005 posts	very good point, curt. besides, not all abortions are because of unwanted pregnancies. Most abortions in the western world are about _wanted_ pregnancies. Parents who want to have a child, but don't have the strength to give birth to a child with defects that is going to suffer from that the rest of its life and will never have the chance to become a full person. In my opinion it is pretty sadistical to knowingly give birth to a fetus that is missing an arm. Conception is an imperfect process. 30% of conceptions give rise to spontaneous abortions, most of the time before the mother knows that she might be pregnant. Friends of mine had an abortion because of dow-syndrom. They wanted 2 children. She got pregnant again 6 months later. Without abortion: family with 2 children of which one would have not been able to live an own life ever with abortion: happy family with 2 children of which both will have a decent chance in life to make something out of it. A reason for a lot of abortions is that parents wait too long to get children. The health of a fetus decreases with age of the woman statistically.
15-11-2008 16:37 vandy
9,642 posts	I think I'm going to be sick. You think it's ok to take the life of a fetus because it has down syndrome??? I'm not saying that you're a fascist dictator, I'm not even saying you're a bad person, but seriously? Wasn't Hitler's plan for a perfect race to kill off people who were mentally retarded, gay, not white, etc??
15-11-2008 16:53 Bucephalus
3,869 posts	blacks, gays, and jews are a little different. I dont have a problem with aborting a fetus that has a serious disease... I think if they were smart enough, they'd want the same thing instead of the suffering.. Plus, it puts unreal strain on families. More power to those who can deal with that sort of thing, but if I were put in that situation, I'd abort the fetus.
15-11-2008 16:57 Dagor
38,005 posts	You think it's ok to take the life of a fetus because it has down syndrome I think that it's okay to remove a lump of cells with severe dysfunctional properties before it has got an awareness, before it has even as much of a life. Your problem is that you think that a fetus is living, that it's a person. Question: is a fetus that is aborted spontaneously burried like a normal baptised person?
15-11-2008 17:00 Dagor
38,005 posts	and instead of quoting hitler .. what happened to severely dysfunctional children before medicine made it possible to decide about life and death? It wouldn't have lived to its first birthday .. that is how nature (or your god) intended it to be, before medicine decided that one that is supposed to die should live.
15-11-2008 19:36 carole
28,823 posts	just wanna point out, to the pple who keep saying stuff like "oh u'd rather kill a baby than deal with your responsibilities", that getting an abortion is in no way an easy thing to do. in any case. imagine a girl who accidentally got pregnant (the circumstances dont matter, it could be cuz she is an uncultured person who slept around without using contraception and doesnt know who the father is). imagine that for her, there is no way she can give birth to the kid, because shes still in school, still young, cant face her parents, cant face having a kid on her own now, because she hates herself for being stupid, whatever. imagine that she thinks "my only way out is abortion". well, and heres my point : there is no way in hell shes gonna live that abortion like a happy solution. an abortion is a horrible experience. and im not talkin about the fetus, fetus dont feel anything, they arent aware of whats goin on, im talkin about the physical and psychological harm thats done to the mother. feelin that u were pregnant even for a short period of time, and having to have your insides scraped, even just chemically, is far from being fun times. NO ONE thinks "oh its cool, im gettin an abortion and tomorrow i can keep sleeping around and acting irresponsibly". and if u heard women saying that, they were lying. so yea, quit thinking that abortion is just an easy thing to do when u wanna get rid of a problem. like daniel said, its not a choice, its a necessity, and no one likes it but sometimes its the only thing to do