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The Abortion Thread
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@ 06-04-2005 16:37 Lind_ | 12 posts
|  Hey you guys!!!
We're doing this projekt in school about an ethical dilemma  , and Iv'e chosen abortion. Could be really usefull to hear your oppinion  and why you think like you do. So if you feel for it pls write what you think about it.  xox Linda |
| Showing posts 251-275 of 276 | Page 11 of 12 |
| Discussion |
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 0  @ 27-12-2007 02:36 xoerinjoyox | 
411 posts
| exactly sweetthing i apluad you | | +2 @ 28-12-2007 09:21 AlmightyShmun | 1,189 posts
| It bothers me when people go on about what their baby could go on to accomplish. Have you any idea the odds of your child amounting to anything that would be beneficial to society, or mankind overall? Ridiculously low. You've got a statistically higher chance of being beaten to death by a large Swedish man wielding a trout in South Africa.
All of these other options people like to talk about are unsavory, at best. Adoption? Madness. I can't speak for other nations, but America is terrible for adoptions. The system is overloaded with unwanted, neglected children, most of whom will never be adopted. It's a horrible life.
Not to even mention the fact that the fetus suffers no loss. He is new to the cycle of life, and pain is an unknown concept. The child has no desire, no concept of suffering. Abortion has no effect upon samsara, and his next life will be fully unhindered. It's not his karma being affected. | | 0 @ 30-12-2007 21:47 xoerinjoyox |
411 posts
| it has been found that babies actually feel it when they are being aborted called the silent scream
* offtopic :
just to let you know
| | 0 @ 31-12-2007 00:52 PunkRckr8 | 
9,546 posts
| Just to let you know, the "silent scream" is a fictitious movie created in the 80's, not a biological occurrence | | 0 @ 31-12-2007 01:03 JDolla | 
7,219 posts
| i take a regressive stance on this issue: against abortions, for killing babies | | 0 @ 31-12-2007 08:39 LudMan | 775 posts
| When is a human being NOT a human being?
A question no numbskull  ,liberal  ,babykilling idiot  can EVER answer. | | 0 @ 31-12-2007 08:44 LudMan | 775 posts
| Yeah, hey,you're about Halfway developed,let's put pliers to you and see how
ficticious your silent scream is. | | 0 @ 31-12-2007 19:48 AlmightyShmun | 1,189 posts
| Halfway developed? Good lord, the ignorance of basic human biology is astounding. You want halfway developed? Hit about 10 years old, and that might be early. Humans do most of their developing outside the womb. A zygote has no nervous system. It literally cannot feel anything. Real synaptic development isn't a big factor until very late in the second trimester, and again, that's pushing it.
And, just for the sake of record, yes, liberals can answer when a human being is not a human. It's one of the biggest topics in philosophy. Or, hell, science. A zygote, again, is not classified as a human being. It will become one over time.
If you want to delve into being harsh, I'll take the grand old Bill Hicks stance. You're not a human until you're in my phone book. | | 0 @ 31-12-2007 21:08 xoerinjoyox |
411 posts
| I wasnt basing the silent scream on a movie or whatever it was you said. I was basing it on readings a doctor did during an abortion. It was recorded that the baby actually felt it when it was being aborted. Now i believe the abortion was in the second/third trimester i cant remember somewhere around the end of the secon i think. Anyways at that point in time the human
* offtopic :
yes its a human
could feel when it was being murdered.
Also this is a harsh topic. Killing humans in every meaning of the word is harsh. I dont know when it ever wasnt. | | 0 @ 31-12-2007 21:24 AlmightyShmun | 1,189 posts
| I wasnt basing the silent scream on a movie or whatever it was you said. I was basing it on readings a doctor did during an abortion. It was recorded that the baby actually felt it when it was being aborted. Now i believe the abortion was in the second/third trimester i cant remember somewhere around the end of the secon i think. Anyways at that point in time the human
* offtopic :
yes its a human
could feel when it was being murdered.
Also this is a harsh topic. Killing humans in every meaning of the word is harsh. I dont know when it ever wasnt.
Again, that was a movie. A very famous piece of pro-life propaganda called The Silent Scream, which was proven inexorably false.
So, question for the pro-lifers. Are you ardently opposed to the death penalty? Do you refuse to kill another in self-defense? Do you protest and oppose war? Do you adopt as many children as you can afford in order to ease their suffering? | | 0 @ 31-12-2007 21:24 AlmightyShmun | 1,189 posts
| Whoops, forgot to take the top chunk off that post. Sorry about that. | | 0 @ 31-12-2007 21:28 xoerinjoyox |
411 posts
| Are you ardently opposed to the death penalty?-- no i am okay with the death penalty. Whoever is given that penalty deserves it. A baby that is being aborted never did anything, therefore they dont deserave to die.
Do you refuse to kill another in self-defense? I would use that in self defense. Obviously the person im defending myself agianst has done something--hence its called defense i would be defending myself.
Do you protest and oppose war? Depends on the reason for the war
Do you adopt as many children as you can afford in order to ease their suffering? I am not aloud to adopt to young still in highschool | | 0 @ 31-12-2007 21:35 AlmightyShmun | 1,189 posts
| But war, the death penalty, and even self-defense all involve the murder of other human beings, ones who have had the time to live their lives and gain experiences, know the true meanings of suffering and hope. A fetus knows none of these things. It doesn't have the cognitive capacity. How, in any way, is abortion worse than those three things? | | 0 @ 31-12-2007 21:40 xoerinjoyox |
411 posts
| the baby hasn't done anything to deserve death is why it shouldnt be killed. as i said in the death penalty obviously they deserve it. war they chose to go into the force. self defense youre defending your own life. | | 0 @ 31-12-2007 21:48 JDolla |
7,219 posts
| ok, here it is:
is abortion morally wrong?
probably, it depends or your individual set of morals
is it murder?
hard to say. during the first trimester, no. during the second trimester, maybe. during the third trimester, almost certainly.
should it be illegal?
in the US (which is all i can speak for...), things are not made illegal simply on the grounds of morality. it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that its causing suffering. i believe that it has been proven that during the end of the second trimester and throughout the whole third trimester, the central nervous system is developed enough to cause pain in at least a primitive form.
so i believe that it should be regulated, and illegal during the entire second and third trimesters. but during the first trimester, abortions should be legal. this doesn't mean that i think its a good moral decision, but its not the government's job to legislate morality. | | 0 @ 02-01-2008 00:02 AlmightyShmun | 1,189 posts
| If I rub a Q-tip along the inside of your mouth, that Q-tip will be covered with living human cells. Those cells have your DNA, just like that fertilized egg from your parents. No one will give a second thought, however, to destroying those cells. Defining a single fertilized cell as human life may seem clear and obvious, but it leads to some strange and unintended corollaries. I'll list a few of them here.
First, the case of identical twins. All of us (I think) agree that twins are two separate people. However, assuming human life begins at the single fertilized cell, they are actually one person- since all identical twins come from a single fertilized cell, that suffers an abnormality in the second or third generation. When does the life of a twin start? When the egg is fertilized, or when the abnormality occurs? This may seem laughable, but it is a serious question if you truly, honestly believe that that fertilized egg is a (one) human being.
Second, the viability question. It is possible to fertilize an egg outside of the uterus- in a test tube, for instance. This test tube egg has absolutely zero chance of developing into a baby, a 16-year-old grunge band guitarist, a 27-year-old medical student, or a politician. Unless it is frozen solid it will die within a matter of hours. Can we call something that has 0% chance of developing any organs, not to mention a personality or the ability to make conscious decisions, a human being?
You may say "But if put inside a woman's uterus, it does have a chance of developing these things." Yes. But we immediately begin talking about "has a chance to". It doesn't possess them yet. This zygote-in-a-test-tube has none of the characteristics of a human, not even the minimal expectations of a human baby. In fact, it can't even get there on its own- it is not even capable of becoming a human child, without having the resources of a female body available, and the expensive medical procedures necessary to get the zygote into the uterus.
Third, the cloning question. Using a Q-tip I can rub the inside of my mouth and get a culture of human cells- my cells, right? But consider this. Assuming cloning is possible (and it IS theoretically possible- if you can do it with sheep, you can do it with humans)... Any one of those cells could conceivably become a human child. If I'm willing to spend enough money on the medical procedures, and if there are any women willing to bear my clone, I could turn any of those cells into a younger twin of me. Considering that, how are the cells lining the inside of my mouth any different than a zygote floating in a test tube? All it takes is the right amount of medical daring-do to turn either into a fetus, then a child, then an accountant. Since most every cell in my body carries my DNA, and since cloning provides a way to grow a fetus from any of that DNA, is every cell in my body a separate human life? Am I committing mass murder against my potential twins every time I sneeze, take a piss, spit?
That's ridiculous. It takes the perfect conditions to turn one of my living cells into a cloned child, and the chances of success are far less than 100%. But it also takes the perfect conditions to turn a fertilized egg into a child, and the chances of success are less than 100%. If one is not a human, the other is not either. If one is a human, so is the other. | | 0 @ 02-01-2008 01:40 PunkRckr8 |
9,546 posts
| I wasnt basing the silent scream on a movie or whatever it was you said. I was basing it on readings a doctor did during an abortion. It was recorded that the baby actually felt it when it was being aborted. Now i believe the abortion was in the second/third trimester i cant remember somewhere around the end of the secon i think. Anyways at that point in time the human
* offtopic :
yes its a human
could feel when it was being murdered.
since you won't take my word for it, I assume you've fallen victim to the false propaganda spewed by the movie from which you are getting your story and so here's scientifically valid proof against your "silent scream": focus on the medical inaccuracies | | 0 @ 03-01-2008 06:45 vandy | 
9,508 posts
| do not--DO NOT--make this a liberals vs conservatives issue. I'm no damn republican. Blech. | | +1 @ 03-01-2008 06:48 vandy |
9,508 posts
| So, question for the pro-lifers. Are you ardently opposed to the death penalty?
YES.
Do you refuse to kill another in self-defense?
I really don't think I could bring myself to kill another person.
Do you protest and oppose war?
I don't go to war protests but I do oppose war.
Do you adopt as many children as you can afford in order to ease their suffering?
Well, I can't afford any children at the moment, but I'm a child welfare caseworker and I'm going to grad school for social work in the next few years, to hopefully try to help this problem... | | 0 @ 03-01-2008 06:56 HOTTIE1010 | 
450 posts
| I'm really torn with this, because I don't think abortions are right, but I don't think they are wrong. If I was in the situation of wither or not i would have one I would have to say that i wouldn't and live up to my mistake and not take the easy way out, but for someone who is going to raise the child and not treat the child in the right ways and think that it was a total burden to them, than you should have an abortion. Because clearly you can't understand that it was your fault that you had the kid in the first place. So basically i think that they are wrong because you shouldn't kill an innocent life and but I don't think they are wrong becuase the innocent life could be totally torcured it's whole life. I truely don't know what's right and whats wrong, but that's my oppion. | | 0 @ 03-01-2008 23:17 xoerinjoyox |
411 posts
| punkrckr:: as i said i didnt not base it on a movie because ive never seen this movie you are talking about i didnt know it was on this earth okay | | 0 @ 03-01-2008 23:28 JDolla |
7,219 posts
| you're basing it off what you've been told by someone who has seen the movie | | 0 @ 03-01-2008 23:54 xoerinjoyox |
411 posts
| no i read it in a book | | 0 @ 04-01-2008 00:01 itsHailey | 
49 posts
| hmm abortion. touchy subject with me. just because you cannot have kids at the time or you're too young, or whatever the reason is you dont want that baby, you dont have to kill it. im not saying you're evil if you et one, if you have to, well then go for it. just dont come to me because i dont ever think that i would look at you the same. i could never ever EVER have an abortion, even if JC got me pregnant right at this instant (which isnt gonna happen  ) i would keep the baby. stop killing innocent little kids, cuz dang, they could grow up to be president! [xtc] | | 0 @ 04-04-2008 03:58 mallibooti | 55 posts
| i think abortion is wrong if you are women enough to open your legs your women to take care of a kid |
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